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From Raphaël Luta <>
Subject Re: [RANT] Mission of the incubator
Date Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:06:11 GMT
Sam Ruby wrote:
> <snip/>
> As I said, my perspective is different than yours.  What I see is people
> who try to "move the goalposts" and establish ad-hoc rules to exclude
> people and proposals they don't intend to participate in.  Most such
> efforts are self-defeating, so I don't get too worked up about it.

I don't know exactly what you mean by the "moving the goalposts" but
it's quute clear we have a much different point of view on incubation
how it can best serve the ASF.
I'll develop my pont of view in another reply but I just want to address
the following point:

> One attempt to "move the goalposts" was to disqualify Andy as he was "in
> the pay of the project sponsor".  The clear implication being that Andy
> isn't one of "us", he is one of "them" and can't be trusted.
> I defy anybody to attempt to apply that particular standard to Roy
> Fielding and JackRabbit.

You have misunderstood my concern about Andy being in the pay of the
sponsor. It's not an issue of "us" vs "them", but the fact that he's
both one of "us", one of "them" and also the *only* ASF representative
in the original proposal.
This would put him in the awkward position of possibly having to chose a
side in case the ASF and Zimbra ever have diverging interests.

To illustrate my concern and contrast with Roy Fielding's situation in

A # before a name represents employees of the sponsor
A single * after a name is an existing ASF committer
A double ** after a name is an ASF member.

AjaxTk/Kabuki initial community:
            1st proposal  2nd proposal  3rd proposal  4th propsoal

Mentors:          -       #A.Clark**    #A.Clark**    #A. Clark**
                                                      S. Ruby**
                                                      P. Freemantle**
                                                      S. Weerawarana**
            C. Becker     #A. Clark**   #A. Clark**   #A. Clark**
            L. Bustelo    #C. Damon     #C. Damon     #C. Damon
            #A. Clark**   #R. Dargahi   #R. Dargahi   #R. Dargahi
            #C. Damon     #R. Schemers  #R. Schemers  #R. Schemers
            #R. Dargahi   #P. Shah      #P. Shah      #P. Shah
            B. Gibson     #G. Solovyev  #G. Solovyev  #G. Solovyev
            J. Pedemonte                M.Marinschek* M. Marinschek*
            A. Peller
            #R. Schemers
            D. Sedota
            #P. Shah
            #G. Solovyev

Jcr/Jackrabbit initial community:
            1st proposal

Mentors:    #R. Fielding**

            #R. Fielding**
            #S. Guggisberg*
            S. Mazzocchi**
            #D. Nuescheler
            #P. Piegaze
            G. Rabellino**
            T. Reilly*
            #M. Reutegger
            P. Russell*
            A. Savory*
            #T. Strasser
            S. Wallez**

As you can see from the above table, the AjaxTk 2nd proposal was
entirely composed of # people, mentor included. AFAIK, that's
something that never happened in the Incubator and something I'm
keen not to see happening as a precedent.
I see a clear risks in such case of creating a jboss-like community
where one company has full control on the destiny of the project.

Kabuki 4th proposal addresses that concern by adding more diversity
in mentors, I'd still wished they took time to field more diverse
initial committers as Roy did in the initial Jcr proposal.

Raphaël Luta -
Apache Portals - Enterprise Portal in Java

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