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From Raphaël Luta <>
Subject Re: ajax proposal?
Date Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:21:54 GMT
Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> On Jan 19, 2006, at 12:36 AM, Raphaël Luta wrote:
>> We're doing loops here. My point in this thread  is that initial code
>> quality does matter in a code grant incubation because it is often
>> burdened by backward compatibility with existing applications and
>> thus major restructure may require a revolution which can hardly
>> safely happen in the early months of the project open-source life.
> And all those points are wrong.  There is no burden of backward
> compatibility because it must be an entirely new product -- all
> of the names change anyway.  A major restructure is a good idea;
> that is, after all, why we founded Apache as a project to replace
> NCSA httpd 1.3R, which was replaced by Shambhala within 6 months.
> And it certainly doesn't have to happen "safely" -- the project is
> going to be shooting for TLP status, which means about a year or more
> under incubation before it can even do real releases, and the more
> hard decisions the group has to make (in public), the better they
> will learn how to collaborate.

I fail to see how you can apply the httpd situation (standalone server,
initial community with independant contributors, most downstream users
relying on standard http/cgi) to the current proposal (development
toolkit/"framework", community with hierarhical relationships and
downstream users code-dependant on toolkit).
You take the optimistic view that the community would work as expected;
I have a pessimistic view that it will not without some cost to the ASF
if at all.

> Honestly, once the name is changed to something neutral like Kabuki,
> none of your objections make any sense.  Especially the ones about
> code quality, since most of our projects started with code that
> needed a serious re-arch almost immediately.  I would love to see
> three or four different ajax toolkits under the ASF, each with
> its own architectural focus, and let them compete for developers,
> but we can only approve one podling at a time.

+1 I just wish they would join with a least a nucleus of public

> Meanwhile, I do think that any proposal to the Incubator needs at
> least three active Apache committers involved, preferably members
> that are willing to do infrastructure tasks.  Incubator podlings
> are seriously infrastructure dependent and the existing volunteers
> are already tapped-out.


Raphaël Luta -
Apache Portals - Enterprise Portal in Java

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