incubator-general mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Sam Ruby <>
Subject Re: ajax proposal?
Date Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:04:48 GMT
Raphaël Luta wrote:
> Erik Abele wrote:
>>Oh, of course - but for now there's no community yet so he is 
>>complaining into the blue sky :)
>>I'd certainly like to see a response to the concerns raised by Martin 
>>but OTOH I don't think that it should evolve into a discussion about 
>>basic architectural principles or even impact the final consideration 
>>of incubation.
>>It's just the initial code, nothing more :)
> I don't agree with this statement.
> The code itself is indeed only the initial codebase but along with
> this codebase come an established group of committers with an
> interest in keeping their current architecture or at least backward compatibility
> An established codebase is *much* more difficult to restructure
> than starting from scratch. Even if someone would be willing to
> contribute to this projet to help address major technical issues,
> it would require a huge amount of effort to effect a significant
> architectural change because of community inertia and backward
> compatibility requirements.
>>>From what I've seen at Apache, major rearchitecture work always
> happen as a "revolution" with an entirely new implementation
> being built and these "revolutions" are dangerous to a
> project communiy health.
> Given the frictions created by "revolutions", it's important
> that these do not happen before the community is mature else
> they may simply split it.
> I think my point is simply that in a code grant incubation
> scenario, initial codebase and initial community *do* matter
> because they'll act as natural forces towards stability and
> are likely to shape the community and codebase for a long time.

Hopefully, at some point, these somewhat abstract discussion of concerns 
that are relevant to all proposals will solidify into concrete concerns 
regarding this specific proposal.

Is code irrelevant?  That would be absurd.  That's why the code has been 
made available for all to download, inspect and comment on.

I think a more neutral restatement of what Eric and Noel are trying to 
say is that while good communities always overcome bad code, no amount 
of good code can make up for a bad community.

On the other had, Raphaël, I see you making implicit assumptions that 
the committers will have entrenched interests that will be difficult to 
overcome, and that the existing community is "mature".  What evidence do 
you have of that?  I'm sure that you can give examples of other 
communities where that was a problem, and I can give examples of other 
communities where that was NOT a problem.  What do either examples 
prove?  Nothing.

What specific concerns do you have with this community and this codebase?

- Sam Ruby

To unsubscribe, e-mail:
For additional commands, e-mail:

View raw message