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From Martin Cooper <>
Subject Re: ajax proposal?
Date Mon, 16 Jan 2006 04:59:45 GMT

On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Martin Marinschek wrote:

> We could of course also set-up quality standards which have to be
> fullfilled before the project _leaves_ incubation. That's a good bar
> to set...
> As the name "MyFaces" has been mentioned quite a bit, I'll explain our
> situation. We currently use the prototype framework (one of the widely
> used projects in the market, which Martin Cooper by the way doesn't
> like either, due to namespacing issues). So, if Zimbra has the same
> problems, we don't really have a need for the library.

Whether I like Prototype or not isn't really the point. The point is that 
I *care* about the quality of what we build here at the ASF. Prototype 
can very easily cause problems when combined with other JavaScript code, 
and this situation is even worse in a portlet environment, so I simply 
want to make sure that the MyFaces team isn't setting itself up for 
problems by relying on it.

Martin Cooper

> We are hoping for a major donation regarding javascript with ADF Faces
> - haven't had any chance to look on the sourcecode so far, though.
> Maybe this will settle all our javascript needs and we'll stop looking
> out for anything else.
> regards,
> Martin
> On 1/5/06, Dirk-Willem van Gulik <> wrote:
>> On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, Martin Cooper wrote:
>>> On 1/4/06, Sanjiva Weerawarana <> wrote:
>>>> So .. amidst all of our soul searching .. what'd we decide to do with
>>>> the Ajax proposal from IBM et al.?? Did I miss the vote and decision??
>> ..
>>> Personally, I would prefer that the ASF not accept _any_ AJAX framework at
>>> this point in time. The area is relatively new and in a great deal of flux
>>> right now, and "crowning" one of them with the ASF brand will create a de
>>> facto standard instead of letting the market decide, whether we like it or
>> We are part of that market - and I have no illusions about our ability to
>> set standards; we canot; we ONLY seem to do so when we happen to a) to
>> jump on the boat with the right technology and b) get the market to play
>> in our playground. (Marginally helped of course by the fact that so many
>> talented peopel and companies come to play here that we do set the odd's
>> for 'a' and have 'b' causal).
>> If your argument is that the quality of Zimbra code is relatively low; or
>> too immature by itself - and that is why you worry about spoiling the
>> market by betting on the wrong horse - then we should simply reject -this-
>> proposal based on the fact that there is a) not enough quality in the
>> donation and b) no hope for it to improve in our playground.
>> But in general - having the ASF offer it's eco system a place where we all
>> can work on Ajax (and have synergy with all the portal code we have, with
>> MyFaces^H^H^H^H^H^HOurFaces) seems like the right thing to do -when- there
>> are sufficient people interested to work on it. Which is the right
>> validating feedback loop.
>> Dw.
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