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From Martin Cooper <>
Subject Re: ajax proposal?
Date Mon, 16 Jan 2006 04:56:48 GMT

On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:

> On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, Martin Cooper wrote:
>> On 1/4/06, Sanjiva Weerawarana <> wrote:
>>> So .. amidst all of our soul searching .. what'd we decide to do with
>>> the Ajax proposal from IBM et al.?? Did I miss the vote and decision??
> ..
>> Personally, I would prefer that the ASF not accept _any_ AJAX framework at
>> this point in time. The area is relatively new and in a great deal of flux
>> right now, and "crowning" one of them with the ASF brand will create a de
>> facto standard instead of letting the market decide, whether we like it or
> We are part of that market - and I have no illusions about our ability to
> set standards; we canot; we ONLY seem to do so when we happen to a) to
> jump on the boat with the right technology and b) get the market to play
> in our playground. (Marginally helped of course by the fact that so many
> talented peopel and companies come to play here that we do set the odd's
> for 'a' and have 'b' causal).
> If your argument is that the quality of Zimbra code is relatively low; or
> too immature by itself - and that is why you worry about spoiling the
> market by betting on the wrong horse - then we should simply reject -this-
> proposal based on the fact that there is a) not enough quality in the
> donation and b) no hope for it to improve in our playground.

An analogy would be the Java web app environment 5 years ago, when Model 2 
frameworks came along and people realised that that was the way things 
should be done, instead of Model 1. Just as I would not have been in 
favour of bringing a Model 1 framework to the ASF at that time, I'm not in 
favour of bringing in what I consider to be a previous-generation 
JavaScript framework now. Why would we want to perpetuate the old way of 
doing things?

Martin Cooper

> But in general - having the ASF offer it's eco system a place where we 
> all can work on Ajax (and have synergy with all the portal code we have, 
> with MyFaces^H^H^H^H^H^HOurFaces) seems like the right thing to do 
> -when- there are sufficient people interested to work on it. Which is 
> the right validating feedback loop.
> Dw.
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