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From Martin Cooper <>
Subject Re: ajax proposal?
Date Mon, 16 Jan 2006 23:47:46 GMT
On 1/16/06, Noel J. Bergman <> wrote:
> Martin Cooper wrote:
> > whether I get involved with the Zimbra toolkit, and try to help them
> > see the light, I need to make a personal decision between putting my
> > energy into that, here at the ASF, or putting it into a non-ASF
> > project that is already on the right track. I know I don't have the
> > energy to do both. ;-)
> If you take your comment to a conclusion, you could be saying that if you
> don't have time to contribute here, the project should be rejected.
> Yes, I agree that I've reduced your comment to the absurd conclusion, and
> one which you most certainly did not intend.

Correct, I did not. The only reason I made that comment at all was because
it wasn't clear to me whether your earlier comment, encouraging me to
"contribute to fixing it", was in reference to the use of Prototype in
MyFaces or to a potential redesign of the Zimbra code, so I chose to address

But what is a solution?  You appear to be against trying to incubate the
> project because of its current architecture, others appear to want to try.
> Do we accept it because they want it give it a try, or reject it without
> trying because you don't have time to help fix it?

I'll take that as rhetorical. But I'd be curious to know how many of those
who have expressed an interest in incubating Zimbra, other than the Zimbra
folks themselves, are JavaScript developers planning on contributing to the
code base, versus people who just think having an AJAX project at the ASF
would be cool, and hope other people will do the (coding) work.

Clearly I'm a lone voice here, albeit making a fair amount of noise. Given
that nobody else seems to share my views on the architecture or on the
effect of the ASF brand on the AJAX world, and given that the incubator
appears to be a "just knock and you're in" project anyway, I've assumed
pretty much from the get-go that I'm fighting a lost cause here. But that
doesn't mean I want to go quietly.

Martin Cooper

I'll note that although I'm not familar with Zimbra, there is another
> proposed project for the Incubator that I am familar with, due to working
> with another project that uses it, and I seriously dislike it (I'd never
> use
> it).  Yes, I'm being intentionally vague, because I don't want to
> prejudice
> it, and there are other people quite keen to incubate the project.
> FWIW, I would want to see your technical concerns addressed before
> graduation, but so far, we have had little if any discussion of what those
> tecnical issues really are, or so it seems from the archives.
>         --- Noel
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