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From "Roy T. Fielding" <>
Subject Re: a few steps before approving a project
Date Thu, 01 Sep 2005 20:31:52 GMT
I don't see what this has to do with Synapse, but whatever ...

> IF we even seem to appear to sneak something by AM sure we will get an
> earful BUT in this case we courted IONA and got their support and
> showed that we can build diversity that spans OW and Apache. For this
> what do we get, brick bats again.

No, actually, nobody has complained about IONA.  People are complaining
that the mentors are doing a crappy job of controlling the other
commercial organizations who seek to spin Synapse into something that
makes other companies look good.

> Look we have no code, some code from Infravio is using Axis 1.X and
> the porposal makes it clear that it is only for "consultation" and not
> a seeding codebase. So we are practically starting from scratch. No
> one even understands that.

Then you shouldn't have any seed code and you should just create
a directory and start working.  You created this mess yourselves
by turning it into a Web Services marketing event.

> Am getting demoralized now because of all this brouhaha over nothing.
> Guess, we don't really mean to be open. Suddenly even building
> businesses around Open Source seems to be a bad idea given the
> reactions for just one DAMN PROPOSAL. I guess given all the acrimony
> we should stop introducing any projects in Apache. Let's just rot and
> die.

Look, I am going to explain this as roughly as possible.  Apache
exists now, today, because people like ME and Randy and Jim and
Brian (and now Greg and Justin and Sam and ...) have forcibly
prevented various companies from abusing their participation in
OUR projects through factually incorrect press releases. It is
YOUR responsibility to do that with projects that YOU agree to
mentor, even if it means publicly humiliating the idiots in PR
when they make mistakes.

This will be a far harder task in the Web Services area (filled
with companies who exist solely on the basis of press releases and
nothing else) than it was for the original Web projects.  You are
swimming in a sewer of bad companies trying to do good.  It should
not be surprising that we need to hose the project down before it
can join Apache.  We need to do that to protect both Apache and
the new project.  It only takes ONE bad project to undue all of
the gains we have made within the ASF.  It is the fact that we
take such care with new projects that differentiates Apache from
other sites that merely host code.


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