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From Davanum Srinivas <>
Subject Re: Recent Incubator proposals ( was Re: a few steps before approving a project)
Date Fri, 02 Sep 2005 19:08:53 GMT

Understood. Please see the reply from Sanjiva about Foo vs "Apache
Foo" (message id is <1125464420.2435.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>)


On 9/2/05, Roy T. Fielding <> wrote:
> On Sep 1, 2005, at 9:53 PM, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> > Am hurt by the words "You turned this into a Web Services marketing
> > event" (Though i made it really clear multiple times that there was
> > only on press release that i was part of and that was vetted by the
> > prc@) But i will live and learn. Am still waiting for someone to point
> > out to an actual problem ("factually incorrect press releases"). Last
> > time i checked, people pay to put out press releases to make them look
> > good. ("seek to spin Synapse into something that makes other companies
> > look good.").
> Ah, maybe you are missing how corporations work in the US.
> If you ask a corporation to join a collaborative project with other
> companies, they expect to do a press release about it.  In fact,
> if they are a public company, they are mandated by the SEC and
> antitrust laws to do a press release to avoid lawsuits over insider
> trading. Public companies must be even-handed when informing the
> public of events that might impact their share price.
> If you want to avoid that, just start the project and don't ask
> companies to get involved -- ask individual developers.
> The only problem I know of in the Synapse releases was the lack
> of "Apache Synapse" in the project name.  It didn't bother me. AFAIK,
> this thread wasn't even directly about Synapse -- we were talking
> about press and incubated projects in general.
> > May be justin is right, we should ban anyone involved in any incubator
> > project from making press releases. As far as i know no one has caught
> > flak so far derby had press releases, beehive had them, stdcxx had
> > them...
> Eh?  stdcxx is in considerable danger of being flushed down the
> toilet because of a Roguewave press release and the fact that
> none of the three mentors seems to have enough time to actually
> mentor the project.  Derby press releases were a huge discussion
> at the time (even with three ASF board members guiding the project).
> Beehive was carefully monitored by Cliff at the time and I don't
> recall any problems there.
> > But hey you picked us to be the scape goat and use it as an
> > excuse for introducing a "NO PRESS RELEASES" policy. That's fine.
> Actually, I think Justin was fed up with the stdcxx folks.  The
> Gartner crap (which is always crap) just happened to come along
> at the wrong time.
> > If you don't want companies to talk about their involvement in Apache
> > projects, then make that a policy and ban ALL press releases (OR) make
> > sure there are no press releases get out w/o prc approval.
> The former is what people are proposing in this thread.  The latter
> has been Apache policy for some time, though policies without
> documentation are a waste of time.  I've already told the PRC that.
> > While we
> > are at it, we should probably have our say on contests like this as
> > well ( Have you read the stdcxx
> > press release?
> > (
> >
> > Why is it just us catching the flak?
> The flak is on the PRC list, where it belongs.
> ....Roy
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Davanum Srinivas : - Oxygenating The Web Service Platform

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