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From "Geir Magnusson Jr." <>
Subject Re: Harmony Podlling Quarterly Report
Date Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:34:02 GMT

On Jul 26, 2005, at 2:04 AM, Henning Schmiedehausen wrote:

> While in general I try to steer clear from licensing discussions these
> days (been too long a part of the Linux crowd in general and LKML in
> particular), I do strongly feel that we should not dilute the ASL by
> making "an exception" or "changing a default license".
> The good thing about the ASL (unlike GPL) is, that it does not scare
> commercial adopters and contributors away. Having something "GPL
> compatible" means IMHO that some of these will be advised by their
> lawyers not to come to Harmony.

The modified BSD, X11, and the Intel license are GPL compatible :)

> Most people that advocate GPL or a GPL-like license over the ASL  
> want to
> "make sure that their code cannot be exploited by commercial companies
> to make a buck from it". Which is a political position that IMHO is  
> not
> compatible with the whole idea of the ASF.
> I'd like to point out the last sentence of
> "The ASF will not dual-license our software because such licenses make
> it impossible to determine the conditions under which we have  
> agreed to
> collaborate on a collective product, and are thus contrary to the  
> Apache
> spirit of open, collaborative development among individuals, industry,
> and nonprofit organizations."
> And personally, I'd like to keep it that way. Less politics, rough
> consensus and running code. If we change any part of a project away  
> from
> ASL and towards a "GPL compatible license", then we will sooner or  
> later
> enter a flamew^Wdiscussion about some contribution on the mailing list
> that was intended by the author as a "poison pill" into our code base.

First, understand what we are doing.  The Harmony project code will  
generally be under the Apache License v2 (or subsequent  
versions...).  Period. We may get pieces that are under compatible  
licenses (such as MPL), just like other projects do, but we do want  
to limit that as much as possible.

The issue we are dealing with is the default license for the mail  
list.  Right now, it's ALv2, just like every other list is,  
implicitly.  (We made it explicit).  What I didn't want to have  
happen is have someone later say "hey, that code that I submitted on  
the mail list was intended to be under the GPL - you didn't make it  

The problem we have run into is that there are community members who  
wish to have at least the work that comes out of mail list  
discussions to be able to be used in their GPL-ed code.  Now, it's  
our interest as a project to produce things with the widest  
usability, and wish to ensure that the "free software" communities  
are able to fully participate in what we are doing, and be able to  
take the results of our architecture work and implement themselves,  
to make more software interoperable.


> Been there, got burned and no T-Shirt. :-)
>     Best regards
>         Henning
> On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 16:46 -0400, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>> In it's first month+ of existence, Harmony has attracted quite a bit
>> of attention, and we are now settling down to resolve some of the
>> issues we've identified in the beginning.  We have on our website our
>> proposed policy framework to monitor contributions and technology
>> contributions.  This policy is in addition to the standard ASF policy
>> and we do not believe that it will cause any concerns.  It will be
>> posted for review by the Apache Incubator PMC before it goes into
>> effect, but we're working to get the last nips and tucks done.
>> On the technology side, there's been a slow start, in part due to the
>> contribution framework getting established, but I plan to push hard
>> for contributions now that we're almost done and people can get a
>> sense of how things work.
>> We have the following outstanding issue that I will be talking to the
>> Apache Incubator PMC about - parts of the community have asked that
>> we change our default license for mail list contributions to a
>> license compatible with the GPL, as the Apache License is deemed
>> incompatible by the FSF.  It's in our interest to ensure that we can
>> have the broadest participation possible, but also recognize that we
>> wish to balance that with the aspects of the Apache License that are
>> important to us.  Expect more on this soon.
>> geir
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Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437

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