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From Ceki Gülcü <>
Subject Re: What is a healthy community? WAS: log4net 1.2.9 beta release
Date Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:08:56 GMT
At 07:53 PM 3/12/2005, Roy T.Fielding wrote:
>On the contrary, the rule is that you must have at least three
>binding +1 votes from the PMC in order to make a release of anything.


For me, the accepting responsibility over a project, say X, translates into 
an engagement to take over  project X if and when the existing committers 
stop working on it. When PMC members cast a binding vote on a given release 
of project X, they are approving the release, in the sense that the release 
is "OK". Their binding vote does *not* mean that they are able to take over 
the project in terms of development resources. Thus, accepting 
responsibility and casting binding votes do not have exactly the same 
meaning. Would you agree?

If taking responsibility means exercising oversight over the sub-projects 
in Logging Services, then I think the LS PMC can only accede to your and 
Noel's request. That much seems pretty obvious.

However, if taking responsibility means providing the development resources 
in case a sub-project  lacks development resources, we cannot collectively 
make such a pledge. I also have to say that insisting on such a pledge 
strikes me as unreasonable. How can a PMC pledge resources it does not have 
or control? The only development resource the PMC "controls" are the 
individuals composing the PMC. To be precise, each voting PMC member 
controls one resource: himself.

>I don't believe in umbrella projects, so from my perspective log4net
>is just one subdirectory in logging.  If logging wants to take
>responsibility for it and logging has at least 3 people willing
>to +1 its releases, then I don't see how keeping it in incubator
>will help.  If logging later loses interest in the project, then
>there won't be 3 +1s to do a release, the code will remain static,
>and we are no worse off than if that code had died within incubator.
>In any case, it is far more likely to gain community once it
>leaves incubator, so making "community" a requirement for graduating
>a subdirectory of an existing project is self-defeating.

Ceki Gülcü

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