incubator-general mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Henri Yandell <>
Subject Re: What is a healthy community? WAS: log4net 1.2.9 beta release
Date Fri, 18 Mar 2005 06:45:44 GMT
I think it's interesting that one of Ceki's main points here seems (to
me) to be that when a community contains multiple implementation
languages, the PMC finds it much harder to promise oversight and the
ability to handle basic issues like security and code maintenance.
Sorry if I'm reading too much into that Ceki.

This shows a serious flaw with the idea that TLPs should be concept
and not language based that was instrumental in leading to the
increase in TLPs.

The solution (and I need to tag it up as a webpage because I refer to
it so often) was in an email from Brian a long time back. Lots of
tight, concept based TLPs (verticals), and then (horizontal) language
associations that tie them together. In that case, a PMC would only be
concerned with the oversight and management of a community's codebase,
and they could trust in the general health of the association to
provide them with necessary skills.

Obviously the Apache Cobol association's health might mean that they
should be worried about a Cobol release, but the PHP and .Net
association would be healthy enough to leave them feeling snug and

Without these associations, we're splintering off into tiny fragments
of societies and only finding cross-pollination at the asf-member

*gets off soapbox....well a bit anyway*

On the Jakarta bits mentioned in the thread; definitely working on
bringing our dead communities into the PMC's awareness. There were
some examples in which the apache-way had not been disseminated and
unsurprisingly the subprojects had died (suffocation). Must hassle
codehaus to see what their stats are for such things :) It's a slow
process but each quarter sees improvement.

To Ken's oft said phrase that 'Apache is a meritocracy', I'll actually
disagree. Apache is a constant choice between meritocracy and
consensus. You decide if people believe strongly on an issue, if you
think they do, you seek consensus and if they don't you act
meritocratic. If you're scared of despotism, you post advance notice
of meritocratic acts :)


On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 21:00:46 +0100, Ceki Gülcü <> wrote:
> At 06:37 PM 3/15/2005, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
> > > I won't make any empty promises here. I don't think the LS PMC could take
> > > over log4x code if the current contributors stopped working on it.
> >
> >How many contributors are there total?
> Allow to me reiterate my request to dissociate this general discussion from
> the specific case of LS or log4net. As chairman of LS PMC, it is difficult
> for me to participate in a general discussion if opinions I voice can
> boomerang back to LS by association.
> My thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond to my questions.
> --
> Ceki Gülcü
>    The complete log4j manual:
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> For additional commands, e-mail:

To unsubscribe, e-mail:
For additional commands, e-mail:

View raw message