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From Robin Antony <>
Subject Re: [OT] How to prevent abusing Apache priviliges
Date Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:01:17 GMT
Hi all,
I have been following this thread with quite some interest. IMO there 
should be a set of rules to let the novice commiters know when a ASF 
veteran who is guiding the team is really crossing the line. There 
should be a do and don't about what ASF members are supossed to do and 
not supossed to do. What are the interest they should be protecting. 
When does it become against the policies of ASF. In most cases people do 
it due to ignorance or just a mistake on their part. But if they did 
know the basic values and ideal that they have to protect then the 
chances of making these mistakes become less probable. What do u guys think?
Robin Antony

Steven Noels wrote:

> On 18 Oct 2004, at 02:19, thorsten wrote:
>> Steven Noels wrote:
>>> Nope. What Thorsten describes looks pretty bad IMO, so I want to 
>>> know what is going on. Otherwise, this shouldn't have been posted at 
>>> all. No need to keep the dust under the carpet. And if Thorsten 
>>> doesn't want to go public with it - he should post on pmc@i.a.o. 
>>> Talking about the issue doesn't have anything to do with forwarding 
>>> private mails to public/private lists.
>> I did not want to do that because I thought we could make rules 
>> against thus abuse in the future without reviewing the past. I 
>> believe in the "second change". Like Roy said "Keep in mind that 
>> mentors are human
>> too and they sometimes make mistakes."
>>> I will not vote on policy which makes no sense or is based on 
>>> unproven facts from the past.
>> I really do not see your point that this policy do not make sense!
> Sure. Do you really think that establishing such a rule will refrain 
> people from being human, and making mistakes? You just want a stick to 
> beat them if they make a mistake? If mistakes are to be expected, and 
> based on factual stuff (such as licensing, release guidelines, etc), 
> I'm all +1 on establishing rules. If you want a rule that "allows" you 
> to deface someone by talking to his management, I'm pretty sure you're 
> looking in the wrong place. What would need to be in that rule? Public 
> punishment? Having a postbox for dropping unfounded claims into? Sorry 
> but I really don't understand what you want to establish with this 
> discussion, other than substantiating FUD.
>> I started this abstract thread to prevent that things from happening 
>> *in the future*.
>> On the one hand you say
>> "doesn't have anything to do with forwarding private mails to
>> public/private lists."
>> on the other hand you speaking of "unproven facts". How can I prove 
>> the abuse without doing so?
> By being brave and send a description of these facts to either this 
> list or the pmc list. You don't need to forward private mails for 
> that. Just tell people who did what.
>>> I don't think so and they are appreciated. But I'm not sure this 
>>> will lead us anywhere if Thorsten doesn't speak factually. I've 
>>> quite had it with the amount of FUD mails making waves on various 
>>> Apache lists.
>>> </Steven>
>> Ok, I see that we will not be able to establish some rules without 
>> speaking factually. I will post the actual use case to the incubator 
>> pmc list.
>> This was *NOT* my intention when I started this thread!
> Tough luck, IMHO.
> </Steven>

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