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From Steven Noels <>
Subject Re: Request for graduation and promotion to TLP
Date Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:00:58 GMT
On 20 Sep 2004, at 12:29, Rolf Kulemann wrote:

>> I think Lenya has been making immense progress on the
>> community aspects. I'm still a bit doubtful whether "functional" apps
>> are suited for ASF adoption (I have a personal preference towards spec
>> implementations, libraries and frameworks), but I guess only Darwin 
>> has
>> the final say about this.
> Interesting u say that. I also asked myself such questions. Lenya is
> indeed quite high level compared to typical ASF projects.
> However I found Lenya as an ASF (incubator) CMS project.....

While this might have been the initial intention when the project 
brought to Apache, I think CMS is a head with many faces, and as such 
might fail to realize cross-implementation-community-cohesiveness apart 
from standardisation of some low-level APIs (WebDAV, JCR, etc). But 
even with these APIs, there's no reasonable guarantee against "data 
hijacking", in the sense that one would be able to mix-and-match the 
different tiers of a CMS project from a pool of available 
implementations, *without* having to go through extensive refactoring 
or data migration. There's no such loose coupling between UI, 
persistence and logic in the CMS world as compared to low-level 
abstraction layers like JDBC (!), and even though many products speak 
WebDAV, much of their functionality isn't exposed or accessible through 
that interface. But I'm a nihilist rather than a marketing person, of 

So in my mind, the Lenya TLP is a project about Lenya, a CMS 
product/framework, rather than a broader community of CMS-interested 
folks @ Apache. That doesn't carry any connotation of underachievement 
of course - just a mere reality check with the rather vague and/or 
over-ambitious proposed mission:

RESOLVED, that the Lenya PMC be and hereby is responsible for
the creation and maintenance of software related to content
management, based on software licensed to the Foundation;

Happily moving on from this debate, I still see a ratio of 5 out of 9 
non-independent committers on the PMC. AAMOF, IMHO there's only a few 
(2?) of the independent PMC members who are demonstrating continued 
involvement with the project. Aren't there any other candidate 
committers to be on the PMC?

Aah - a flurry of new folks being (self-)proposed on the lists. ;-)

Steven Noels                  
Outerthought - Open Source Java & XML            An Orixo Member
Read my weblog at  
stevenn at                stevenn at

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