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From David Sean Taylor <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
Date Sat, 15 May 2004 03:33:36 GMT

On Apr 23, 2004, at 5:49 PM, Berin Lautenbach wrote:

> Guys,
> I'm going to vote -1 here, until the status file is updated addressing  
> some of the original concerns.
> Andrew Oliver raised a specific point [1] that the Java PMC wanted the  
> incubator to specifically consider community.
> Also, have a look at some of the e-mail in :
> listId=& 
> tField=subject&Search=Search
> Guys - I'm quite sure that all the concerns *have* been addressed, and  
> an updated status file will cover all of them.  At which point I'll  
> gladly change this to a +1.
> I also suspect that others in the PMC have more visibility than I, but  
> we are being quite hard on other projects in incubation, and I believe  
> we need to be consistent.
> Cheers,
> 	Berin
> [1]  
Hi Berin,

Let me try to address the issues from the above link below:

>> Please note that my support is based on the following assumptions:
>>     1. all spec/seed code will be released (this, in my opinion, must  
>> be
>> done prior to consideration) If thats not till March, then the project
>> can't reasonably be considered until March. (We don't take on other
>> closed source projects)

All code is in Apache CVS. Absolutely nothing is closed. All in the  
open. Yup.

>>     2. David Taylor and the other committee members will soon be
>> released from the Non-Disclosure agreements they are currently under  
>> so
>> that they can participate freely. (You can't have a community based  
>> on a
>> closed spec where the members can't speak freely).

We can all speak freely and we won't get in that situation again.
With the public release of the Portlet Specification last year, there  
is nothing now that isn't already public.

>>     3. I'm assuming that others including from the Jetspeed and
>> Cocoon-portal will go add themselves as committers...
>> - I will  
>> send
>> an invitation out.

All Jetspeed and Cocoon committers had the opportunity to join Pluto.
Many Jetspeed committers did decide to join the Pluto team.

>>     4. The project will keep compatibilty with the spec but we'll be
>> free to expand beyond it in much the same way Tomcat and other  
>> projects
>> do. Xerces, for instance, doesn't solely implement just SAX and JAXP
>> with a parser under it. From a performance standpoint, SAX interfaces
>> would be nice, having them in the RI (extending the spec) would serve
>> this purpose.

The project has already started to expand quite healthily.
For example, David DeWolf, a Pluto committer, has started a Kuiper  
Its a refactored experimental implementation of the portal based on COP

>>     5. Future revisions of the Spec will happen in the open.

I give my word as an Apache committer that I will work hard, and  
already have believe me, towards making this situation (of a closed  
spec) never happen again.

>> Please note, I REALLY want to see this at Apache, so this is not a
>> fillibuster intended to kill the effort to be followed by a series of
>> Catch-22 arguments (here, but not there, which means it can't be  
>> here).
>> But I don't feel the participants should be given a free pass into
>> Apache to create non community-based non-open projects just to get the
>> feather. If this is going to be an Apache project, it does need to be  
>> an
>> Apache project. If there is motivation on everyone's part, we CAN
>> obviously fix these issues by addressing them head-on in an honest and
>> straightforward manner.
>> I DO want to particpate, and I DO want to see this happen, but lets do
>> the community thing. We can certainly resolve these issues if all
>> parties are motivated.
>> -AndrewCOliver

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