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From "Cliff Schmidt" <>
Subject RE: [PROPOSAL] Beehive
Date Tue, 18 May 2004 02:30:13 GMT
Noel J. Bergman wrote on Monday, May 17, 2004 6:10 PM:

>> I would like to propose a new Apache project named Beehive.
> LOL I think you just did.  :-)  [Sorry, I use the same turn of
> phrase.  I still find it amusing.  :-)]

got me! -- I usually catch myself before doing that.  I think 
next time I'll start with "I, Cliff, do hereby propose..."

> The proposal can be found at
> Looks good.  One question is if you would consider using Subversion
> instead of CVS.  

I definitely think we should consider using Subversion. I'll 
check with the other committers before requesting anything from 
root/infrastructure (I can never remember which requests go where).

> And I'm a bit concerned about the number of mailing
> lists.  Are they all needed already?  If so, we can create them.  If
> not, would it be better if the initial Community was all in one
> place?  Remember: you want to foster a spirit of being one Community
> with multiple codebases, not multiple communities.

Excellent point.  I think we should probably just start with one 
user list.  I'm not sure about the dev lists; while there is a lot
in common across the three subprojects, the committers are likely
to have a strong focus on a particular project, and I'm hoping the
dev-list email traffic will be pretty strong from the start.  I'll 
run this by the other committers, but I'm interested in other 
experiences/opinions.  I definitely get your point about fostering 
one community with multiple codebases; I've learned that from 
reading Robert Burrell Donkin's posts about how Jakarta Commons has

>> Since the project is being proposed as a TLP with three subprojects,
>> I've requested that the Board consider this proposal at their next
>> meeting.  However, it is my understanding that the proposal should
>> first be voted on by the Incubator PMC.
> As I understand it, there is no real need for the Board to consider
> it until there is a proposal at the end of Incubation for it to
> become a TLP.  In the meantime, it is the Incubator's responsibility.

That's fine with me, but it seems slightly different from my 
understanding of the outcome of some of the lengthy incubator 
discussions we had towards the end of the year.  I'll start another
thread on this, because it's not significant for this proposal, but 
I do think we should make sure all our docs are saying the right

>> Craig McClanahan has offered to be the Champion and Mentor
>> for this project
> We seriously need to revise the documentation.  Craig, Dims and
> others will join you on the Beehive PPMC as knowledgable and
> experienced peers. 

Are you making fun of the names that ended up in
Don't tell me the names are going to change yet again.  =:-0
I think "Mentor" was once called "Shepard", and "Champion" has at 
times been called "Sponsor", until "Sponsoring Entity" became just 
"Sponsor", which actually makes everyone think of the "Champion".
I think we should just refer to them by primary keys to maintain
semantic integrity when we change the labels.  ;-)
>> I'd like to start a PPMC composed of these two Apache members,
>> the other Beehive committers, and any Incubator PMC member who
>> is interested in helping guide the project.
> :-)
>> Please let me know if you see any issues with this proposal that
>> call into question whether it would be appropriate for incubation.
> I haven't seen any objections, nor do I have any.

That's great news!

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