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From "Noel J. Bergman" <n...@devtech.com>
Subject RE: [Vote]: ASP.NET support for httpd project?
Date Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:03:55 GMT
All in all, I think it is a fine idea.  One thing caught my attention, and
that was the comment:

> The initial code contribution would consist of:
>
>   Support the Microsoft ASP.NET System.Web.Hosting interface from
>   within the Apache httpd server (Windows platform port).
>
> Later code could include support for the ASP.NET interface from Mono,
> and ultimately support an Apache.Web.Hosting interface with complete
> bindings into the Apache httpd Web Server 2.0 - supporting an array
> of platforms.

The phrase "Support the Microsoft ASP.NET System.Web.Hosting interface"
raises concern with me, due to Microsoft's .NET patents and copyrights.  I
have no problem with the idea of supporting mod_cli, to coin a vendor
independent name, but please review:

  http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2004/03/11/mono.html

in depth, specifically the "Two Stacks" section.  My concern is related to
the impact of Microsoft IP on whatver portion(s) of the proposed project it
touches.

If we are only implementing a plug for Microsoft's socket, and would have
other plugs for mono or other CLI engine, so that it is no different from
having an MPM that calls Win32 APIs and another MPM that calls Posix, that
seems fine.  Can you clarify?

Other ASF projects looking at working with .NET / Mono / CLI.  I expect that
people are going to have to look closely at what can and cannot be done, and
get some sort of common guidance documented.

IANAL, but as a general rule of thumb, I think we are safe if we are writing
adapters from our code into theirs -- standard client code.  I think we are
on shaky ground whenever we implement one of their service interfaces.  The
mono folks appear to agree.  Perhaps CLI-using ASF projects should talk to
the mono folks about the second, non-Microsoft, stack.

	--- Noel

-----Original Message-----
From: William A. Rowe, Jr. [mailto:wrowe@rowe-clan.net]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 13:37
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Cc: pmc@httpd.apache.org
Subject: Fwd: [Vote]: ASP.NET support for httpd project?


Incubator folks,

this submission was voted in with all +1's from the httpd pmc, for
incubation.
I see the final list as dotnet-dev@httpd - can that list be used for the
initial
vetting as well?

 From this point in the incubator I'm not sure of the process flow - help is
greatly appreciated.

Bill

>I have placed the candidate for submission in
>  http://cvs.apache.org/~wrowe/mod_aspdotnet.zip
>and would like the httpd PMC to vote to accept this sub-project for
incubation.
>Which means it doesn't go to httpd yet - but is submitted to the incubator
>committee.  Jim Jagielski, ASF secretary, is in receipt of the signed code
>grant from Covalent (and my belated Contributor's Agreement v. 3.1.)
>
>I would be happy to serve on the PMC, perhaps lead it if the PMC chooses,
>and Daniel Lopez has also volunteered to serve on that PMC.  Sterling
Hughes
>is also busy as everyone, but expressed positive reaction and will be
invited to
>the PMC.  JimJag also offered to me on the phone to help incubate.
However,
>because I/my company have submitted this code, I'd ask for another PMC
>member to act as the shepherd of the project to ensure that the submission
>is treated vendor neutral.
>
>The subproject would be tasked to:
>
>  Support httpd server interfaces to ECMA-335 / ISO/IEC 23271 (CLI)
languages,
>  known to Microsoft users as .NET, and solicit the support of CLI
implementors
>  to support a wide range of CLI bindings.
>
>The initial code contribution would consist of:
>
>  Support the Microsoft ASP.NET System.Web.Hosting interface from
>  within the Apache httpd server (Windows platform port).
>
>Later code could include support for the ASP.NET interface from Mono, and
>ultimately support an Apache.Web.Hosting interface with complete bindings
>into the Apache httpd Web Server 2.0 - supporting an array of platforms.
>
>Votes, comments and volunteers appreciated :)
>
>Bill
>
>At 03:52 PM 2/3/2004, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
>>I'm sending this out as a feeler to discover how large a community one of
two
>>proposals might have for incubation, and eventual incorporation as
subprojects
>>of the httpd top-level project.
>>
>>First proposal, I'm in the process of ensuring that all of the I's are
dotted and
>>T's are crossed to offer the mod_asp.net module developed by Covalent to
>>the ASF.  Important details;  this runs in-process within httpd/win32
only,
>>and invokes the Microsoft.NET implementation of System.Web.Hosting
>>to support the ASP.NET framework.
>>
>>Additional proposal, I'd like to investigate extending an invitation to
the crew
>>of mod_mono, if they would have it, to make such an Apache mod_net
>>implementation pluggable with different front and back ends, much like the
>>Tomcat connector project.  In fact, rather than the ASP_NET plugin, one
>>alternative would use the Tomcat connector, itself, rather than inventing
>>the wheel.  I'm led to believe that it's what mod_mono already does.
>>
>>But another server front-end plugin could allow Mono to run in-process,
>>as well, much as the Covalent implementation has.
>>
>>The back-end plugin would extend whatever support is necessary for either
>>Microsoft.NET, Mono, or whichever .NET framework would host the module.
>>
>>Note that front-ends run as platform native code, while back-ends run
within
>>the .NET CLR runtime.
>>
>>What would be *most* cool, and was the original plan (never realized) for
>>mod_mono, would be true httpd module creation al la mod_perl.  This would
>>certainly have to be the in-process flavor, not the out of process
extension
>>such as a Tomcat connector.  Perhaps different front-end stubs would allow
>>us a single back-end .NET framework design for any .NET implementation.
>>
>>So just a straw poll, who would be actively interested in participating in
an
>>ASF-hosted ASP.NET implementation, first for win32, and secondly for all
>>platforms e.g. mod_mono revisited, as an ASF entity?  If you are answering
>>*hell ya* - I expect to add your name to the proposal for incubation, so
be
>>careful what you ask for :)
>>
>>Bill



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