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From "Noel J. Bergman" <>
Subject RE: projects incubated by the incubator PMC
Date Tue, 09 Dec 2003 08:00:33 GMT
> You speak as if there was no possible way to get into Apache before the
> Incubator.

That is not what I said.  Clearly it could not be true, since the Incubator
was not created until October 2002.

Neither one of us was present when the Board created the Incubator, but you
can ask and you can read the archives.  You will see that the Incubator was
created to address various concerns.  I suggest that you read the e-mail
exchange from October 19 through 21, since it applies directly to questions
regarding how new codebases can enter the ASF.

> I am insisting that the incubation process include the specification
> of a final destination whether as a TLP or within an existing TLP to
> prevent the Incubator from becoming ApacheForge which is something I
> would prefer not to see.

I understood your opinion, but I disagree with the requirement for an a
priori designation of a final destination.  I agree regarding "ApacheForge",

Earlier, you made an comment that "test coverage, clarity of documentation,
and established user base" are "far easier to pinpoint than the vague term
'community'."  Although those are good things, they are not indicative of
what makes a good ASF project, in my opinion.  In my mind, key differences
include oversight and collaborative communities.  We emphasize Community
over code because we believe that in the long run a healthy Community is
better than an sick one, regardless of how their code compares at any given
point in time.  Our rules are intended to support and codify those
principles.  In that light, the Incubator helps to prevent "ApacheForge",
rather than cause it.

The reason why I asked you how you see the ASF was to see why we might
differ in our opinions, and why you think that something as vitally
important where others do not.

> How is what I personally see Apache as relevant to my requesting a very
> simple thing of requiring a desired destination within Apache as part of
> the Incubation process.

Surely you have heard the cliche: "easier said than done."  :-)  Fulfilling
the requirement may not be as simple asking for it.  Generally, there is
some idea, and that is part of the project's STATUS.

	--- Noel

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