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From Geir Magnusson Jr <>
Subject Re: [ROADMAP] Incubator Reorganization and getting *real* stuff done
Date Wed, 03 Dec 2003 22:55:06 GMT

On Dec 3, 2003, at 12:27 PM, Aaron Bannert wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 08:04:58PM -0500, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
>> On Dec 2, 2003, at 5:40 PM, Aaron Bannert wrote:
> [...]
>>> I would
>>> like to hear what the current Geronimo committers think about the
>>> vote, and if they are ok with selecting a new name (or if they are
>>> vehemently opposed to choosing a new name). I realize that a
>>> discussion about the name has already occured within the committers,
>>> but I don't know if that decision was unanimous. Can we get the
>>> committers to vote/voice their opinion here so we can finally wrap
>>> this up?
>> They would in the PPMC.  If you feel that it would be valid to have 
>> the
>> committers decide - something I'm really glad to see - lets use this 
>> as
>> a motivation to get the PPMC structure setup, get a mail list for 
>> them,
>> and watch them go.
>> Given that PPMC decisions are subject to PMC and board oversight,
>> there's no risk in doing it this way.
> There most certainly is risk here.
> People want to get to work on their project, and they need to know
> the name is set in stone. We can't have people making logos and 
> webpages
> and classes when at the end of it all when it comes
> time to exit the incubator, they have to change everything they've
> been working on.

I'm thinking you are confusing my point with someone else's comment, 
and also going beyond what we're supposed to do here.  The Geronomo 
project is well w/in their right to change the name at the last moment, 
by the letter of the law.  It would be momentously stupid to do that, 
of course.

I didn't say "Give to PPMC and let them sit on it".  I just think it's 
a tad arrogant for us to declare the game over w/o ONE project 
committer voting.

> Maybe you'd rather just use the PPMC as an avenue to ignore the
> votes of the Incubator PMC and those members who have said they
> want the name to change?

Please, take a moment and reread everything I've posted on the subject.

I suggested creating the PPMC in the first place to make sure that the 
project members are involved in the governance of their own project and 
cement the understanding that it must align with the ASF.

I think that the incubator PMC dictating a change on a project that 
didn't get a chance to resolve an issue itself is exactly the opposite 
of what we want to teach people the ASF is about.

I want the Geronimo PPMC to be formed, and given the chance to address 
the question.  We can beat them about the head and neck with a stick 
later if we don't like their decision.  But let them try to work it 


Geir Magnusson Jr                                   203-247-1713(m)

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