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From "Andrew C. Oliver" <>
Subject Re: [RT] Incubator Reorg
Date Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:33:54 GMT
On 12/2/03 8:04 AM, "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <> wrote:

> Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
>>> How is it to be done?
>> Ditch the incubator bureaucracy entirely and have the sponsoring member go
>> into the community, show them the light and then demonstrate to the PMC or
>> governance body (board/members whatever) that the project has a strong
>> community and follows the rules and audits the licensing issues.
> This is what should happen here too. Before it exits incubation the
> above has to happen. No difference here.

Yes there is, as only the interested and involved would be a part, no
bureaucratic body in the process.  If the interested and involved can't be
found, the project can't be accepted.  Very simple.  No need to sit Shiva
and come up with policies and procedures for a year and a half.  No "what do
we call these people" games.  No "I can't update the website because I
can't/won't use forrest" games.  No "it's not our job as the Incubator PMC,
we just ???, you are responsible for incubating" just a cold hard
recognition of the truth.  You're on your own until you get in.

> ...
> So you mean that the actual move to Apache should be done when the
> project is finally and completely accepted in Apache?


> Even if the project is in Incubation, and even if I have gone as much as
> I can towards putting in disclaimers that the project is not finally in
> Apache, the project is in fact legally already *inside* Apache.
> I think I know where this is coming from ;-)

No, you think you do.  I argued this same thing FOR tapestry long before
what you think this is coming from happened.  And I was proven right then
though the findings of fact were disputed as always. ;-)

Andrew C. Oliver
Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI
For Java and Excel, Got POI?

The views expressed in this email are those of the author and are almost
definitely not shared by the Apache Software Foundation, its board or its
general membership.  In fact they probably most definitively disagree with
everything espoused in the above email.

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