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From Stephen McConnell <>
Subject Re: PPMCs and oversight
Date Tue, 30 Dec 2003 01:44:20 GMT

Noel J. Bergman wrote:

>Berin Lautenbach wrote:
>>I will absolutely agree that we want to keep [rules] to a minimum.  But
>>that minimum must exist for the ASF (as an organisation) to work.
>Agreed.  Some of which I think are for the Incubator PMC to impose on itself
>as necessary, but don't effect the structure of the PPMC.
>>I *do* care that, as a member of the PMC, I am discharging my role
>>in ensuring the ASF is being protected, and that projects entering
>>the foundation do so in a manner that will not bring harm on the
>I agree.  Plus I would add that successfully incubated projects enhance the
>>However there should be one person (the single mentor that we
>>originally had) who is tracking the project, the PPMC etc.,
>>holding them to task and making the Incubator PMC aware of any
>>issues.  That to me is a critical task, and one that requires
>>a level of accountability.
>I disagree.  I believe that with the PPMC structure in place, we should hold
>the PPMC accountable, just as every PMC is accountable.  We need to ensure
>that the PPMC members are well aware of the responsibility of the PPMC, and
>that it is accountable.  I think that instilling that sense of
>accountability there from the beginning is important, and that installing a
>designated taskmaster as I feel you describe it would be counter-productive.


Look at things from the other way round.  For all practical purposes you 
are the defacto point-man with respect to the Directory project.  From 
the point-of-view of people on the directory project you are the man 
they can turn to privaetly, ask questions, seek advice, and within which 
you can provide info based on experince, conections, contacts, etc. Your 
also someone that members of the PMC can turn to and say "hey Noel - how 
are things going on over on the directory project?".  That's possible 
because your defacto accountable.  What the role means is that members 
of the incubating project can count on you to do you stuff, just as 
members of the PMC can count on you to do your stuff - but lets imagine 
that conflicts in availble time arise and for some reason your out of 
commission for three months - well, heck - I can jump in do your that 
stuff - the point is that there is a liason, a go-between, a recognized 
"Apache" contact point for all parties - someone identified as the 
point-man.  Someone from Apache ready to say "yes" - I'm available and 
committed on both sides of the equation.

Cheers, Steve.


Stephen J. McConnell

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