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From Nicola Ken Barozzi <>
Subject Re: [RT] Incubator Reorg
Date Wed, 03 Dec 2003 08:50:39 GMT

Sam Ruby wrote:

> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>> Sam Ruby wrote:
>> <lots-of-other-good-stuff/>
>>> One thing we have talked about is PPMC's.  This makes a lot of sense for
>>> things proposed as new ASF projects.  This makes considerably less sense
>>> for donations such as the ones that are coming into Maven.  The PMC is
>>> already established.  New committers may come online as a part of the
>>> donation, but that is standard operating procedure for PMCs.  As is the
>>> role of infusing the culture into the new committers.
>> For donations intended for landing in other projects, such as
>> Maven, that is the reason why the PPMC consists of that PMC, plus
>> the committers, plus the Incubator PMC. When the project leaves the
>> incubator, the Incubator PMC would leave the PPMC, leaving the PPMC
>> in the hands of the other PMC. At that point, the PPMC could be
>> left to operate as a PMC sub-committee or subsumed by the PMC. If
>> this PPMC approach works, it could serve as a model for resolving
>> some of the concerns about umbrella projects.
> Lets try a few thought experiments.
> 1) Suppose somebody new contributes 1K lines of quality code a week to 
> Maven over the course of a year... and is voted in as a comitter. 
> Clearly a CLA is required, but does the a PPMC need to be created or 
> does the incubator need to be involved?

Of course not, this is just adding new committers.

> 2) Suppose I write 50K lines of code and it lives on sourceforge for a 
> year.  Maven takes a liking to it and I contribute it (and in the 
> process am made a committer).  Clearly a software grant is required, but 
> is a PPMC needed or does the incubator need to be involved?

If the code will go in Maven a PPMC is not needed.
If the code will go in a subproject of Maven with mostly existing 
committers, a PPMC is not needed.
If the code will create a new community based mostly on external 
contributors, a PPMC is needed.

In essence, a PPMC is needed for new communities made of new committers, 
not for new codebases per se. In this case it's evident that the 
Incubator is needed.

As for grants...

> 3) Mix scenarios 1&2.  Somebody new to the ASF writes the code on 
> sourceforge, wishes to donate it to an existing and vibrant community, 
(in Apache)
> signs both a CLA and a code grant.  PPMC?  Incubator?

Here the point is only the code grant...

> My presumption is that existing, healthy communities can be presumed to 
> make incremental increases in the number of committers without requiring 
> the incubator to be involved in instilling "The Apache Way" into those 
> committers.

Sure, agreed.

> But I *would* like the incubator to be involved with all code grants and 
> with the formation of all new PMCs (by that I mean truly new, not merely 
> ones formed by bifircation).

The only point here that still confuses me is about "all code grants" 
that are not tied to new PMCs-PPMCs. In this case, we don't have any 
policy up yet.

My first guess is that we should simply set up a page for code grants as 
we do for incubating projects, and a directory to store the grant stuff.
PMC chairs would simply track the status of the donation there.

Nicola Ken Barozzi         
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)

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