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From Sander Striker <>
Subject Re: [RESULT][VOTE] PPMCs for Incubating Projects
Date Wed, 24 Dec 2003 17:19:12 GMT
On Wed, 2003-12-24 at 13:42, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> Apart from the general agreement on PPMCs, for this particular vote 
> instance there has been a +1 from me, one from Noel, on with changes 
> from Aaron and a positive comment from Leo.
> Thus, and also given the rule we have tacitly agreed upon on the pmc 
> list that the votes of this PMC are considered valid of there are not 
> objections regardless the number of votes, I consider this vote passed.

You can also take the lack of objections when the Geronimo PPMC was
created as no objections to the PPMC concept in general.

> Below is what I think is a sufficient summary of what PPMCs are. I'll be 
> fixing the site with this info soon. If there are still things to 
> change-fix, feel free to say so, they won't invalidate this vote but are 
> just fixes that can be done as normal.
> = PPMCs =
> == Description ==
> To make Incubating project learn to govern themselves and govern 
> themselves at the same time, each project has a PPMC (a place where to 
> practice having a PMC) that works similarly to a PMC but reports to the 
> Incubator PMC instead of the board.

Include rationale maybe.
Explain that PMC = Project Management Committee

> == Members of the PPMC ==
>   * project developers-committers
>   * landing PMC members that want to help (if there is a landing PPMC)


>   * Incubator PMC members that want to help
> The Mentors are the only ones /required/ to participate on the -dev 
> list. The other Incubator members would have to "catch up" to the extent 
> that PPMC discussion requires external context.
> Incubator PMC members not engaged in active development or discussion on 
> a project are still able to eventually intervene in quality of 
> observers. They should refrain from voting on project decisions unless 
> really necessary, thus acting as vetoers of last resort.
> == Reporting the the main Incubator PMC ==


There is only one Incubator PMC, no need to qualify that.

> Development and discussions go on the dev lists, where the Mentors are 
> the ones doing active oversight.
> The status updates are posted to, prior ACK 
> from any Incubator PMC member.

Does this need an ACK?

> == FAQ ==
> Joe Developer: "So, how does this 'incubation' thing work then?"
> Website: "Well, we want to do our best to make new projects feel
> welcome at the ASF, and we want the ASF to feel comfortable bringing
> the new project under its hood. This requires a get-to-know-the-ropes
> period, which we call incubation. We establish something dubbed a
> PPMC, which is a mailing list where a project's core group learns how
> to deal with all those 'serious' intricacies that come with being a part
> of the ASF, like quarterly reports, voting in committers, STATUS
> file management, voting procedures, etc etc.
> Also, we'll take a good look at any IP/licensing/copyright/trademark
> issues that may exist during the incubation process. As soon as it is
> clear that a project has truely captured the ASF spirit and all legal
> issues are sorted out, the project leaves incubation and lives on on
> its own."

s/all legal issues are sorted out/there are no legal issues/
Or should we say: there are no obvious potential liabilities?

> Joe Developer: "So, what is this PPMC thing?"
> Website: "A mailing list where the project's core group learns what
> it means to be part of the ASF. To help them do that, there's a group
> of ASF people called the Incubator PMC. Also, there will often be
> other interested ASF members to help out and answer questions."
> Joe PPMC Member: "So how do I...?"
> Website: "We don't have clean answers to most of those questions
> (yet). Just post an e-mail about the question/issue/problem, and we'll
> figure things out together."
> Joe PPMC Member: "I don't have any more questions!"
> Website: "Well, good! Go on then, out of the womb, go and
> manage things on your own. By the way, would you be interested
> in a position on the Incubator PMC to help out new projects?"

Hmmm, the 'position on the Incubator PMC' candy can be toned down
IMO.  Yes, we do need people to help Incubator, but to be honest
I wonder if people who are fresh at the ASF will be able to
find there way and are comfortable enough helping others.


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