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From Jason van Zyl <>
Subject Re: projects incubated by the incubator PMC
Date Mon, 08 Dec 2003 02:50:59 GMT
On Sun, 2003-12-07 at 21:47, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> On Sun, 2003-12-07 at 18:33, Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> > There is no reason for a project to have a final destination until
> > it has to go somewhere other than incubator, at which point it can
> > decide whether it wants to be a TLP (calling for a board vote) or
> > part of an existing project (calling for that project's pmc to vote).
> > Maybe we should have a six month limit on incubation, where the
> > result is promote or punt.
> > 
> > We have no way to measure the worthiness of a project before it has
> > even started
> - test coverage
> - clarity of documentation
> - established user base
> And those are three criterion that can easily be measured and I think
> that is a good start. Something that's far easier to pinpoint than the
> vague term "community". The three above listed criterion are things that
> can easily be faked. Tapestry satisfied these quite easily. 
... things that can't be faked ...

> > , and generally speaking we are MUCH MUCH MUCH better off
> > if a project gets started in Apache rather than on sourceforge.
> How so? I'm genuinely interested in why you think so.
> > I don't care if there is some overlap with Wagon, nor do I care for
> > any further discussion about which one is better -- if I can't find
> > some objective criteria for evaluating software, then I obviously
> > don't need that software. Once I need it, I can figure out for myself
> > which one is better -- I don't need someone to assume that for me.
> > It is easier for Apache to support both projects than to arbitrarily
> > choose between the two.
> It wouldn't bother me at all for other projects to come here that are
> overlapping partially or completely that's not my point. My point is the
> incubator shouldn't be a source code limbo.
> How did the decision come about that a complete path for incubation not
> be requisite as part of a proposal? Didn't the incubator start with
> Tapestry in which successful incubation meant the movement to a final
> destination?
> So theoretically, given the current situation, any number of codebases
> could land here and sit indefinitely? That we are actually encouraging
> people to use Apache's incubator as an alternative to SourceForge?
> > ....Roy
> > 
> > 
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Jason van Zyl

In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
  -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society

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