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From Leo Simons <>
Subject Re: Add 'practice' PMC structure to projects in incubation
Date Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:01:51 GMT
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:

> Committers could be given commit access long before having project 
> member status, and would thus be able to commit but not vote. This 
> makes it possible to keep a high bar for membership of the project but 
> a lower bar for committing.
> Is this possible/wanted? 

I think I don't like it. If you're committing, you're doing the work. If 
doing the work, you should have a say in everything that concerns your
work (meritocracy).

Yes, there is the "chicken-egg" problem where people are planning to do
the work, but haven't yet. Should they receive commit access but be denied
the right to vote? Don't think so. Its about trust...if you give 'em an 
you trust 'em to not misuse voting privs either. If they violate that 
trust (rare
occassion!), its often easier to coach them as equals rather than from 
the top

Its also about management...with commit priviledge comes management
responsibility. Don't want to take your share of the 'management overhead'?
Then you're not getting commit privs, either. I love that.

IMV, most apache people are coders at heart, and only get involved with
all the 'management' concerns when they are somehow forced to (like when
no-one does it for them but its needed anyway).

(This is also the 'code smell' surrounding incubator: many of the people
doing the coding @ incubator are not involved with doing the incubating,
and its the other way around as well.)

in summary:

+1 to a "core group" / "practice PMC" / "committer list" for incubating 
+1 to self-management
-0 on all p&p which seperates priviledge from responsibility

back to my corner!

- Leo

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