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From Jason van Zyl <>
Subject Re: Generated sites
Date Tue, 25 Nov 2003 22:22:25 GMT
On Tue, 2003-11-25 at 15:06, Leo Simons wrote:
> Jason van Zyl wrote:
> >On Tue, 2003-11-25 at 11:32, Leo Simons wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>Jason volunteered, I volunteered, we were given access easily enough,
> >>proposals were accepted easily enough, and then it just took weeks for
> >>us to get things in shape. That's got little to do with process or
> >>committees, but more with the busy agenda of the volunteers.
> >>    
> >>
> >I doubt that.
> >
> what exactly do you doubt? That I was given access, that my agenda is 
> full, or
> that there wasn't a committee in the way? Does not compute...(yes, I am 
> dense)

That somewhere between getting access and now, in your moment of fire of
trying to get something done you were stopped in your tracks because you
were probably waiting on something else to happen first. I should have
explained that better. My personal example was once trying to get Scarab
running on Nagoya and not being able to find Pier for a week. I was all
ready and raring to go and was stopped dead in my tracks.

> >>I guess most of the same applies to Jira. We were waiting for a week or
> >>two for Noel and Serge to get things in place, now we're waiting for a
> >>week or two more for Jeff to finish something I can't remember. IMV,
> >>it has got little to do with committees, more with lack of time / lack of
> >>volunteers.
> >>    
> >>
> >Rigth, as with everything things just mysteriously disappear into a
> >blackhole. Why is that?
> >
> "In Open Source, many create, few finish." - can't remember who said that.

That's fine for projects but not for infrastructure. The infrastructure
needs to be in place so that all those people have a place to store
their unfinished projects :-)

> I don't know. Do you? Maybe we just need an issue tracker.

That would be absolutely. We use JIRA at codehaus and it works great. We
could even open a project there in the interim and it will just come
over with the rest of migrant data.

> >>With geronimo, the guys were told several times over the course
> >>of several weeks how to generate and get in place their website
> >>(which is not rocket science). That's got nothing to do with
> >>committees either.
> >>    
> >>
> >You mean with Forrest? Or with Maven?
> >
> maven of course:

I think they got it sorted out with some help. I was willing to help as
was Dion but neither of us knew until a couple days ago.

> >>I think you make good points about process (the ASF can be quite
> >>slow-moving and more than a little formal in some respects), but
> >>somehow my perspective on the examples you provided is quite
> >>different...
> >>    
> >>
> >What does that mean? That you're willing to wait around and I'm not? I
> >don't mind doing some work. I just don't want to be crippled by
> >committee.
> >
> I am not sure what that means, but certainly not that you're not willing to
> wait nor willing to work. I'll be happy to assert you do a lot more work
> around the ASF than me, and your patience has also been tested on various
> items a lot more than has mine.
> I guess all I meant to point out is that I don't feel like I'm being 
> crippled
> by a committee.

It's not prevalent, I just see hints of it and I would hope that
developer desire here for certain things being in place takes precedent
over infrastructure policy.

> cheers!
> - LSD
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Jason van Zyl

In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
  -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society

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