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From Jason van Zyl <>
Subject RE: Generated sites
Date Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:31:56 GMT
On Tue, 2003-11-25 at 03:35, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> > I only say at the sheer frustration of watching it take an eon to get a
> > Wiki setup and JIRA.
> On top of all the work that Jason Dillon did, Leo Simon worked all night
> tonight on code changes to MoinMoin.  It appears he's finished.  

That's all well and good. My statements are simply a gentle warning at
keeping the infrastructure team from becoming like the dreaded IT
departments in corporate environments where you have the make a
requisition to get anything done. To try and not alienate your own
volunteer base by making it impossible to participate because it doesn't
meet the standard of absolutely no down time which I still argue is an
impossibility with all volunteers.

I'm just trying to draw a constrast between the way things used to be
done here, how Bob and I do things at Codehaus and the atmosphere that
is now here where doing anything seems to be a long drawn out, protacted
flurry of tome-like essays between committees.

Bob and I managed in 1 day to find a managed hosting solution that
provided 10x the allowed bandwidth, the same network redundancy for a
better price due to donations and ad deals we worked out. We've
installed JIRA 4 times now, upgrades take 20 minutes and the Wiki was
setup in under two hours. We certainly don't have the traffic Apache has
or the resources to track but I think we've managed to find a good
balance between managed hosting and a set of volunteers who are allowed
to participate as much as they like to control their projects.

If a project doesn't care to participate in helping out with their own
projects and is just trying to leech off the Apache name then throw them
to the wolves because they don't deserve to be here. Infrastructure
should not be burdened with every task because as a volunteer
organization it obviously isn't scaling given the massive amounts of
times it is taking to get some things done.

> The
> Geronino and General Wikis need updating (the code), but the new Incubator
> Wiki looks right.  We should now be able to create Wikis in the farm fairly
> easily.
> JIRA is in the hands of Jeff Turner.  As far as I know, the delay is all
> related to data migration capabilities.
> 	--- Noel
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Jason van Zyl

In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
  -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society

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