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From "Howard M. Lewis Ship" <>
Subject RE: Marc Fleury reacts (Fw: [JBoss-dev] July 2003 news)
Date Sun, 10 Aug 2003 18:59:38 GMT
How does anyone keep up with this flood of mail?

> 1. tapestry applied for entry to jakarta. there is a very 
> high barrier 
> which projects who wish to become part of jakarta have to pass. (if i 
> understand correctly) geronimo is a board level initiative which will 
> become a top level project.
> 2. tapestry lacked active support from apache members.

Tapestry was "adopted" by Andrew and dIon (diOn? dioN? DIoN? Whatever?), sometime after I
wrote the
first proposal. AoC followed up my initial queries with a boilerplate proposal from POI.
Made all the difference in the world. 

> 3. tapestry was the first.

The first, and perhaps last, under those rules. Tapestry's (ok, my) experience was not ideal.
Incubator resources were scarce ...
its like doing documentation, everyone knows its a good idea, but nobody has the time.

> FWIW i think that tapestry has become a stronger projects due to this 
> baptism of fire. i also think that it's unfortunately that 
> the incubation 
> took so much energy that could probably have been more 
> effectively spent 
> elsewhere.

The move to Jakarta motivated a number of the other developers; People may still think of
has "Howard's project", but the meritocracy project really works; the other developer's stake
has increased because.

> i do agree that the incubation process needs to be improved 
> and documented.
>   i also feel that it's important that all incubatees follow the same 
> process (even though for some products this may just be a formality).

Geronimo is following its own path; perhaps the board believes the J2EE stack merely has to
assembled from existing pieces (Tomcat, Avalon, etc.).  Perhaps.

I don't believe that such wide-scale efforts can start in the Bazaar; maybe I'm wrong; I'd
folks took their time to set a real direction for the project, then retired to
their corners to get things started down the right path; seems like what they are attempting
chaotic.  This whole Elba thing, with LGPL code "temporarily" being used, seems
to be a kind of favoritism towards Geronimo not available to other Apache projects, which
excise all connections to LGPL (and GPL) code.

Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator, Tapestry: Java Web Components

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