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From Nicola Ken Barozzi <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Policy for incubating project resources (was Re: xmlbeans project )
Date Wed, 30 Jul 2003 06:51:08 GMT

Ted Leung wrote, On 29/07/2003 20.11:
> Why are you blaming the XMLBeans guys for your not having your act 
> together?  

I'm not blaming them in any way, Ted. I'm surprised that this is what 
you have gathered from my mails, and if this is the case, I apologise.

> It's all well and good for them to introduce themselves, but 
> that's not what is holding us up right now.  Right now, we're held up 
> because we don't  have a public mailing list where we can see whether 
> their behavior matches their talk. 


Remember that Incubators *don't* know anything about projects waiting to 
get incubated, while sponsor instead have been talking with them for 
weeks or months. It's a totally different POV.

> They can say all they want about how 
> they want to work as a community and allow non BEA developers and so 
> forth, but we need to see them doing that.  I thought that was the point 
> of incubation.

This is a common misconseption of what the Incubator PMC has to do and 
this makes me even more sure that this PMC is needed.

Have you looked at our STATUS file? Well, you will see that there are 
many things that have to be checked that have nothing to do with how 
they work together. As most Apache guys, you see communities working 
together and focus on that. But other things are also important, and 
that's why the Incubator PMC had to be created.

I'm not saying that your rantings are unjustified, just that there are 
needs that nevertheless have to be fulfilled.

Remember that your rants about how much time it takes to make decisions 
are not directed to us, but to Apache, and how Apache works currently. 
Decisions take time, and the Incubator takes time like any other 
project. The decision we were taking now is based on the problems about 
incubation of Lenya, which were recent. And the way infrastructure is 
handled has nothing to do with the Incubator.

I have resigned from the Avalon PMC also because I want to help more in 
the Incubator. There has yet not been a serious tentative to make the 
Incubation work. We need volunteers, and I see that they are coming; 
let's get back to work.

Nicola Ken Barozzi         
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)

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