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From "Andrew C. Oliver" <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Policy for incubating project resources (was Re: xmlbeans project )
Date Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:58:35 GMT
On 7/28/03 2:03 AM, "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <> wrote:

> Berin Lautenbach wrote, On 27/07/2003 10.48:
>> Not sure I understand?  (Call me slow :>).  I'm more trying to determine
>> how that responsibility is realised.
>> So for example, there is a requirement for a shepherd.  That person has
>> a set of responsibilities.  What are they?
> The shepherd not on the Incubator project has no more responsibilities
> than the ones from the project itself or the ones of any other Apache
> committer. The incubator shepherd has the responsibilities that any
> other Incubator project member has.
> Nothing different from the XML PMC.

Note that the XML and Jakarta PMC do not usually control things at the micro
level such as "what should the list alias look like"..  For evidence, POI
has poi-dev,  Gump has

The best government governs least.

> Reading the mailing lists, the help of the incubator/non-incubator
> shepherd, the status file of the project in the incubator CVS.

Backseat driver.

> Well, it's because it seems that there are some strange ideas WRT what
> incubation is.
> Look, if instead of the "Incubation PMC" it was the "XML PMC", would it
> have been less confusing?
> Again, don't confuse responsibility with "who does the work". In our
> case, ATM, the Incubator PMC basically controls that things don't go out
> of bounds. As for making the project proceed, it takes someone else for
> that, hence the sheperd or mentor thing.

Responsibility implies that you do work especially when someone drops the
> We are still learning and need fresh helpers, of you will join the
> effort and keep helping like you do now, with suggestions and questions,
> it will slowly get better :-)

Have the entire Incubator PMC resign, move the infrastructure resources
under the auspices of the Infrastructure group, move the responsibility for
incubation, legal responsibility, etc to the PMC for which the project has
applied where it ultimately will land/belong anyhow.

This will reduce the line at the DMV, eliminate confusion, etc.. . Don't
blame me, you asked... ;-)

Andrew C. Oliver
Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI
For Java and Excel, Got POI?

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