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From Steven Noels <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Policy for incubating project resources (was Re: xmlbeans project )
Date Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:49:34 GMT
On 30/07/2003 18:21 Aaron Bannert wrote:

> Yes, please discuss it here on general@incubator! Private email is the 
> absolute
> worst place for these types of discussions.

That private mail, and even IRL talk, started literally _months_ ago 
when Cliff from BEA approached me during a tradeshow to talk about the 
eventual donation of XMLBeans to ASF. Given BEA's relative inexperience 
with ASF, some reasons of discretion, the turbulent discussions about 
process during Tapestry's incubation, and the long list of failures 
amongst the projects listed on, the 
proposal has been created offlist, but with a board member cc'ed on the 
most critical exchanges. That way, Cliff was able to come up with a 
well-crafted proposal, without getting drowned in discussions like 
these, which have nothing to do with content, and much with style & 
process. While I value process, process should help and encourage rather 
than obstruct progress.

After the proposal has been put live, I'm pretty sure the remaining 
private conversation is only about administrative details, like the 
correct spelling of cliff's account/first name and all that. Nothing 
harmful at all.

> If the STATUS file hasn't been updated in 3 months, and you see 
> something that
> needs fixing, update it yourself!
> I noticed that you think the incubator PMC is responsible for doing the 
> *work*
> of incubation. That is a false assumption. The Incubator is a place 
> where new
> projects can be incubated. The contributors to the Incubator are those
> people who want to accomplish incubation. Anyone can contribute. The PMC
> exists solely for oversight of the process, not to implement the process.

I'm pretty sure _nobody_ thinks the incubator PMC is responsible for 
doing any actual incubation work, except for setting out the guidelines. 
Pardon me, but if they fail in doing that, and in the mean time prove to 
be counterproductive by shielding away documents from people who are 
actually helping incubating projects, well....

Steven Noels                  
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at  
stevenn at                stevenn at

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