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From Ted Leung <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Policy for incubating project resources (was Re: xmlbeans project )
Date Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:11:45 GMT
On 7/29/2003 10:33 AM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:

>On 7/29/03 1:01 PM, "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <> wrote:
>>>After spending considerable time off-list with Cliff preparing his
>>>proposal, I'm getting a bit weary with all this rules stuff
>>ASF is incorporated. We have certain rules to abide to, like licensing
>>et all. And also internal rules, that you know quite well, about voting,
>>and about infrastructure policies.
I've no issue with rules, except when we say we have rules but can't 
articulate them.  Example #1. What should the names of the mailing lists 
and CVS be? or

>And see, I don't think you're the person who should be responsible for them
>Nicola Ken.  I think the XML PMC/Steven should.  If they don't have time or
>are unable to, then the project should not be under their oversight because
>it will be their continuing responsibility.  Just because you seal the ship
>with turpentine doesn't mean it won't sink later if you never do it again.
I am here representing the XML PMC.   I've been *waiting* for the 
incubator PMC to make up its mind on how to name projects, and now I am 
*waiting* for infrastructure to create some resources (and yes, I know 
they are busy with minotaur, and I am cutting them some slack).  I'm not 
willing to cut the high and mighty incubator PMC some slack for rules 
and policy that should have been in place for a year and the failure to 
document such..   It's fine for us to come out with the high and mighty 
Apache way, but when we don't have basic stuff like this in order it 
makes us look bad.  As a n ASF member, member of 2 PMCs, and former PMC 
chair, I find this to be an embarassment.   If the incubator is 
incapable of doing its job then maybe an ASF member needs to introduce a 
resolution calling for its dissolution.

>>Which rules make you so tired? I just blocked the creation of some
>>resources for less than a week, and you are already tired? It takes
>>years to build good communities, and patience is a virtue. I don't
>>honestly think that some days will ruin it all.

>>Suggestion: why don't we get to know the XMLBeans guys better? What
>>about if each of them sends us a mail with a brief bio and expectations?
>That is an excellent idea.
Why are you blaming the XMLBeans guys for your not having your act 
together?  It's all well and good for them to introduce themselves, but 
that's not what is holding us up right now.  Right now, we're held up 
because we don't  have a public mailing list where we can see whether 
their behavior matches their talk.  They can say all they want about how 
they want to work as a community and allow non BEA developers and so 
forth, but we need to see them doing that.  I thought that was the point 
of incubation.

I think it would be great for the XMLBeans team to introduce 
themselves.  Maybe you'd rather that took up 
the slack for xmlbeans-dev@.   That's fine with me too.


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