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From Nicola Ken Barozzi <>
Subject Re: Issues with XMLBeans proposal
Date Fri, 04 Jul 2003 06:43:36 GMT

Greg Stein wrote, On 04/07/2003 1.24:

> On Thu, Jul 03, 2003 at 04:22:10PM -0400, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
>>1. Top level project - IMHO this isn't big enough and you don't have the
>>open source experience or robust community to pull that off (not intended to
>>be a criticism)
> There is no size minimum for a TLP, but I believe the Board would want to
> see the PMC has more direct experience at the ASF. So yes, I don't see that
> the Board would approve constructing a new PMC for this.

As incubation goes, making a project a TLP right away is a *major* 
problem. If it isn't already a big and stable project with knowledge of 
Apache rules and a big sane OS community around it, I really prefer it 
to be under another PMC that can do the "practical" part of the incubation.

>>2. XML - I'm sure it would be fine.
>>3. Jakarta - IMHO this the best place for it.
>>The division of XML vs Jakarta predates me for certain, but I think the main
>>issues surrounding that are rusty.
> The problem is Jakarta itself. Centering a PMC around a *language* rather
> than functionality is the inherent problem. These questions will continue to
> arise over and over.

At that time it made sense. Java is not only a language, and is so 
separated from other environments, that it was IMHO the only way of 
aggregating enough resources to launch something out of it.

But things that go well one time (and Jakarta has been a major success), 
don't necessarily go well the second.

> When Grisha Trubetskoy wanted to contribute mod_python to the ASF, a good
> number of people called for creating a 'python' TLP. 

I'd do it when they'll donate Python itself ;-)
Does wishful thinking work?

> To that extent, I'd say it is an XML project.

There is another more simple rule. Who has shown that they want the 
project most? Apache.XML. Then let them have it.

> However, I think it is mostly
> up to the XMLBeans community to ask for one or the other. If that PMC says
> "okay", then everything is fine. (and no... PMCs are not allowed to meet at
> sundown to duel for an arriving project :-)

No? ;-P

If XML.Apache is willing, as it seems, to cater for this project, I'll 
wait for a vote from them, an ACK from the Bea guys, and start preparing 
the hatcher :-)

Nicola Ken Barozzi         
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)

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