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From "James Cox" <>
Subject RE: Incubator DOA (Re: [STATUS] Tapestry [LACK-OF] Progress)
Date Wed, 12 Mar 2003 03:26:24 GMT
one of the problems incubator faces is that it is pretty much required that
anyone who takes the task needs to be a reasonable veteran of the ASF, or at
the very least a member. Hopefully by that stage, they'll know the ins and

Unfortunately, all these people are busy.

 -- james

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew C. Oliver []
Sent: 12 March 2003 03:07
Subject: Re: Incubator DOA (Re: [STATUS] Tapestry [LACK-OF] Progress)

Roy T. Fielding wrote:

>> 1. The border of incubator reponsibilities are ambigious with regards
>> to the boards
> Nope.

Okay. Well they are to me.

>> 2. The incubator is not responsive to new requests
> Yep.  Somebody needs to own each request.

Thats a bit backwards..   So a new project coming has an internal owner
right?  And he's going to get access from where?  Infrastructure,....
He might not be able to subscribe to infrastructure...

Dude... We can agree to disagree but I think incubator has exacerbated
the mess.

>> 3. The incubtor (itself) has not served to any decernable benefit to
>> Tapestry, its first project.  Nor does it appear to have benefitted
>> from it.
> Irrelevant.  The ASF benefits from it, or at least will once it crosses
> the hump.

Great.  How will this happen?  Whats the plan to get there?  And it will
be a logical falacy to put that back on me as I don't believe it will in
its present form/etc. ;-)

> Of course it should be expanded.  The PMC should be the people doing the
> incubation.  However, if we get no volunteers, then the correct response
> is that the ASF should not be accepting new projects.

Well I sheparded the Tapestry thing so far as I had access to do so.
What role was the incubator supposed to play in this?

>> I think the real problem here is that we're moving the responsibility
>> away from those whom are motivated to accept it.
> No, we aren't.  The problem is that the people motivated to accept it
> are not motivated to do the work of accepting it, and hence are not here
> doing that work.  Much of that is simply because they don't know that
> they need to be here, they don't know what the work is, and they don't
> know what is acceptable.
> Expecting some uncle-PMC to do those things is just backwards.

So if the purpose of the PMC is to what?

Dion, myself and the tapestry committers did all the work with
Tapestry.  So if thats the program congrats it worked...just don't know
what good the icubator did for it.


> ....Roy
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