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From "Andrew C. Oliver" <>
Subject Re: Incubator DOA (Re: [STATUS] Tapestry [LACK-OF] Progress)
Date Wed, 12 Mar 2003 04:28:41 GMT
>> Dude... We can agree to disagree but I think incubator has 
>> exacerbated the mess.
> No, it has simply made it a little more obvious.  The problem we had was
> that projects were being accepted without due diligence.  The choice is
> now either to perform due diligence or not accept the project.  Sorry if
> that slows things down, but I would rather not accept any more projects
> than continue to ignore the dirty laundry.

Again.  I disagree.

>> Great.  How will this happen?  Whats the plan to get there?  And it 
>> will be a logical falacy to put that back on me as I don't believe it 
>> will in its present form/etc. ;-)
> The usual way -- people wanting it to happen will make it happen.  If 
> people
> don't want it to happen, it won't happen.  However, let me make this
> perfectly clear: anyone who thinks non-action on the part of incubator
> will result in this process being handed back to the PMCs is smoking
> some very bad dope.  The default will be to not accept the project.
> If you want to improve incubation, then you will have to improve
> the incubator, and the only way to do that is by volunteering.

The incubator is good because it provides a great benefit to the ASF and 
there is no other way because the incubator is good and it provides a 
great benefit to the ASF and there is no other way.  Got it.

>> Well I sheparded the Tapestry thing so far as I had access to do so.  
>> What role was the incubator supposed to play in this?
> You were supposed to be the incubator.

Wow in the long winded conversations going into this I was an irrelevant 
cog interrupting the grand incubator scheme..  Now I'm the incubator?

>> So if the purpose of the PMC is to what?
> The PMC exists for the same reason other projects have PMCs -- to make
> sure that committers get commit privs, to approve the guidelines when
> they are documented, and to identify those people who have been given
> the authority to make decisions on behalf of the ASF within its scope.
> The PMC is supposed to be the people doing the work.

It has done none of those things.  Sam did the first, I did the third 
with regards to tapestry.

>> Dion, myself and the tapestry committers did all the work with 
>> Tapestry.  So if thats the program congrats it worked...just don't 
>> know what good the icubator did for it.
> You are the incubator.  What do you think?

Every response I tried to give resolved to "God so loved the world that 
he didn't send a committee"...  and I'm not even a creationist.

I think I'll just spell out the sponsoring member's duties and who/what 
has  is the real process.  I will volunteer to document it.  I'll 
forward the wiki page once I get it started.

I still think a set of "here is what the goals are"  "this means it 
succeeded" "this means we need to change our minds"


> ....Roy
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