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From Nicola Ken Barozzi <>
Subject Re: Incubator DOA (Re: [STATUS] Tapestry [LACK-OF] Progress)
Date Tue, 11 Mar 2003 22:18:34 GMT

Jeff Turner wrote, On 11/03/2003 6.04:
> Feh.
> Incubation was a dumb idea from the start.  

Thanks, I like constructive attitude.

> It is busy failing in practice.

It has failed for the first project, which it actually never incubated.

> PMCs should manage the acceptance of new subprojects, not some
> disinterested Incubator PMC.

First of all not all projects want or can start as subprojects.
As for "disinterested", I'll take it constructively... yes, the 
Incubator PMC is less interested than other project in accepting 

I think that probably in case of subprojects it's quite obvious that 
PMCs should take the incubation into account themselves. One from us 
could simple monitor that project for some time and help needed, but 
only as an extra helper.

We should stay around also to be an initial filter (witness the case of 
the lates WS PMC request and license issues), and as a helper for those 
projects that won't have accepting PMCs. These will have to remain on 
*our* lists and CVS, or else we have no control.

> IMHO, scrap this failed experiment and let Tapestry migrate to Jakarta
> without being further jerked around.

I'd agree.

> I feel I'm stating the blindingly obvious.  Is it just me?

We have had (and I'm also replying to Dion about his earlier request), a 
project called Tapestry that has been a first for us. We are a project 
ourselves, and you seem to me a bit too harsh in your comments.

Anyway, Tapestry has *not* been incubated, at least not by the 
Incubator. It has been followed by Dion and Andy (whom I thank BTW), 
that are not Incubator PMCers. I don't see how something that we have 
not done goes to our demerit.

If there is one thing that I have learned from this, is that we cannot 
delegate to others that are not from this PMC.
Another is that we need more PMCers, especially from the Java land.

I'll make a more articulated summary on this soon. I hope I've been able 
to capture the failings that have brought to this rant and address them, 
at least tentatively, in a reasonable manner.


Nicola Ken Barozzi         
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)

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