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From Aaron Bannert <>
Subject Re: Apache Proposal AGAIN
Date Sat, 04 Jan 2003 22:17:29 GMT

On Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 01:50  PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
> Answers below.  AGAIN.  [*]
> [...]
> From 
> > :
> "Tapestry would benefit from Jakarta in terms of greater exposure and
> acceptance, but also in terms of better infrastructure, such as 
> Bugzilla
> and Maven."

Thanks. Tapestry is in a unique position since it's the first project 
to run through incubator, so my apologies in advance if these and other 
have already been discussed elsewhere (where many of us aren't 

>>> Also, are there any other Apache people (members, committers, 
>>> contributors, etc) interested in joining this community?
> From
> :
> "Andrew C. Oliver
> dIon Gillard"

Please note the use of the word "other" in the above query. Since you, 
Andy and dIon seem
to be most in touch with this group of potential community members, 
would you perhaps
like to direct those people to this list so that they might participate 
in the
incubation process?

> [*] I've been pondering The Apache Way(TM) of late.  This style of 
> challenge and parry is an example.  I also note a tendency towards 
> "battles must be fought on my turf".  This saddens me.

I'm dense and you're being vague. What exactly is bothering you?

If it is my insistence that discussions and project proposals happen
on a mailing list (specifically this mailing list) then it is 
unfortunate that you
see this as a turf war. I simply want the most healthy environment for 
types of discussions.

Since this incubation process is not yet defined, we must each take it 
ourselves to figure out what we believe the proper criteria are for 
and incubation of new projects.

If you are going to take each request for elaboration as resistance to
the incubation process, then at the end of the day we'll all be sitting
around being defensive and nothing will get done. OTOH, if we are able
to explore the ramifications of accepting a new project, then in the
end we will have a more healthy community.

> When in such situations, my tendency is to retreat from the forefront 
> and to selectively reinforce those who's opinion I share.  A +1 here.  
> A quote and a hypertext link there.  Perhaps an occasional question.

Quotes are good (in context). Hyperlinks on mailing lists tend to 
visibility to those people with instant internet access. I almost 
always forget
to go back and read hyperlinks in emails once I get back online. I find 
very frustrating when URLs appear in emails as a replacement for 

> What would I have done differently in this case?  Well, If I had a 
> question of the Tapestry folks, I would simply go ask them.

I was actually trying to figure out *who* they are. So far it's just 
Andy and dIon, right?


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