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From "Andrew C. Oliver" <>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Apache Incubator Sandbox
Date Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:19:56 GMT
Response inline and appended.

> Good point.
> Here they come:
> Avalon has some projects that were created under Avalon but that are not 
> in scope, and we are going to move them elsewhere. Other projects were 
> already moved. They are efforts from Apache committers.
>  - AvalonDB
>  - EOB (Enterprise Object Broker)

you mean this -  it has already moved somewhere AFAIK.

>  - Jesktop
> - it has already moved.

> I have a couple of projects myself that are on Sourceforge but I'd 
> happile move there instead:
>  - Monarch (also based on Avalon)
>  - Morphos (now in Jakarta Commons Sandbox,
>             where xml committers can't help)

I'd help if it had its own mailing list.

> These are the ones that come to mind right away. Many others are in 
> Jakarta Commons Sandbox, like Jelly for example, and others were started 
> in Sourceforge, like AntEater.
> As for communities, in the Sandbox they are always extemporary 
> communities, based on the needs that push to try new things. That's why 
> it's in the Incubator, where the PMC is about new projects...
> Hope this explains things a bit more.

I like this idea as long as there are Apache folks committed to them and 
their health.  Two of the above are Paul Hammant's foundlings.  EOB is a 
  tremendous idea that I'd like to see take off (though in a slightly 
different direction, paul and I have spoken about this).  Therefore, I 
think bringing those home is a tremendous idea if they want to.  Though 
EOB now has its own domain name, which might indicate that it does not.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the sandbox model has yet to prove itself 
as a way to build a robust community.  It often "hides" communities. 
EOB and Jesktop don't seem to have attracted significant communities as 
of yet, so they might be appropriate.  (Though I think EOB would be 
better matched with jboss if you ask me -- many reasons)..

Therefore I'd suggest that healthy communities are not appropriate for 
the sandbox, but those communities which are founding under larger 
projects and do not yet have healthy communities are most appropriate.

<inflamatoryopinion requestedaction="agree, ignore">
Once again, I think this is a good idea so long as there is 
source/community tied to its founding, not founded in search of a 


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