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From h...@abula.org
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Groovy 2.6 potential retirement to focus on Groovy 3.0
Date Wed, 13 Jun 2018 17:53:30 GMT
Bloated, is the word I was looking for...

Den 2018-06-13 19:46, skrev h2gr@abula.org:
> I did come from Java myself, and I understand the argument to ease the
> transition from Java to Groovy, but as Java adopts language features
> from Groovy, I worry that supporting both syntaxes will create a more
> complex language with more options, more stuff to learn, and less
> clarity.
> 
> Besides, in my experience developers are quite able to handle
> different languages. Granted, Groovy should be easy to read and
> understand for developers coming from Java (and other) languages, but
> not every language feature in other languages need to be valid Groovy
> code as well.
> 
> H2
> 
> 
> Den 2018-06-13 17:24, skrev MG:
>> On 6/13/2018 10:24 AM, h2gr@abula.org wrote:
>>> (I may be alone on this one, but I'd even suggest to consider some of 
>>> the Java syntax compatibility, if this helps speed up Groovy 3. If I 
>>> need to write Java code, I can always put it in .java files.)
>> 
>> Java-syntax-compatibility-only-support in Groovy is not there to be
>> used by Groovy developers (see previous discussions about warning when
>> using these constructs), but to support copy & paste compatibility for
>> people considering switching from Java.
>> I understand where you are coming from, but imho the closesness to
>> Java always has been another strong argument for Groovy, and
>> considering supporting Java syntax constructs in Groovy 3.0 through
>> the Parrot parser seems pretty straightforward I think we should keep
>> doing this.
>> 
>> An alternative would be to support a tool which auto-converts from
>> Java to Groovy (I would estimate this would be more effort, and it
>> does not really give the "copy & paste Java code and it is Groovy"
>> experience). Or IntelliJ/Eclipse/Netbeans could support this as part
>> of their respective code refactoring support...
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> mg
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Den 2018-06-13 10:08, skrev Mario Garcia:
>>>> I would say 3 as well
>>>> 
>>>> 2018-06-13 10:04 GMT+02:00 Robert Oschwald 
>>>> <robertoschwald@gmail.com>:
>>>> 
>>>>> Same with me. Option 3 seems best, even when some of our projects
>>>>> are still on Grails 2.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Am 13.06.2018 um 09:50 schrieb Søren Berg Glasius
>>>>> <soeren@glasius.dk>:
>>>>> While the project I'm on is still on JDK 7, but due to Grails 2.x I
>>>>> think that option 3 is the best way to move forward (and nudge
>>>>> projects on to a higher version of Grails as well).
>>>>> 
>>>>> /Søren
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2018, 09.42 , <William.W.Mangum@wellsfargo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I agree on option 3 (abandon 2.6 immediately).
>>>>> 
>>>>> JDK 6 or 7 is not in use anywhere that I have project visibility.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Full support for JKD9+ is becoming a pressing issue. Users are
>>>>> concerned about the ability of Groovy to run on future JDK releases
>>>>> (including GraalVM), more than legacy support.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best Regards
>>>>> 
>>>>> FROM: Paolo Di Tommaso [mailto:paolo.ditommaso@gmail.com]
>>>>> SENT: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 3:18 AM
>>>>> TO: users@groovy.apache.org
>>>>> SUBJECT: Re: [DISCUSS] Groovy 2.6 potential retirement to focus on
>>>>> Groovy 3.0
>>>>> 
>>>>> I agree on option 3 (abandon 2.6 immediately).
>>>>> 
>>>>> Full support for JKD9+ is becoming a pressing issue. Users are
>>>>> concerned about the ability of Groovy to run on future JDK releases
>>>>> (including GraalVM), more than legacy support.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> 
>>>>> p
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 9:11 AM, David Dawson
>>>>> <david.dawson@simplicityitself.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would vote 2.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Actually, i would vote 3) abandon 2.6 immediately.
>>>>> 
>>>>> No projects I have any knowledge of still use jdk 7.
>>>>> 
>>>>> FROM: paulk@asert.com.au
>>>>> 
>>>>> SENT: 13 June 2018 08:06
>>>>> 
>>>>> TO: users@groovy.apache.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> REPLY TO: users@groovy.apache.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> SUBJECT: [DISCUSS] Groovy 2.6 potential retirement to focus on
>>>>> Groovy 3.0
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>> 
>>>>> There was some discussion at gr8conf about how to speed up delivery
>>>>> of Groovy 3.0. Some of that discussion was around the scope of what
>>>>> we want to include and have yet to complete in 3.0 but I won't
>>>>> discuss that right now.
>>>>> 
>>>>> One of the other discussion points was Groovy around 2.6. As many 
>>>>> of
>>>>> you know, we have released alpha versions of Groovy 2.6. That
>>>>> version is a backport of most but not all of Groovy 3.0 to JDK7
>>>>> including the Parrot parser (though it isn't enabled by default).
>>>>> The purpose of this version has always been to assist
>>>>> people/projects wanting to use the Parrot parser but who might be
>>>>> stuck on JDK7. So in some sense it is an intermediate version to
>>>>> assist with porting towards Groovy 3.0. While that is still a noble
>>>>> goal in theory, in practice, many of our users are already on JDK8
>>>>> and we have limited resources to work on many potential areas.
>>>>> 
>>>>> With that in mind, we'd like to understand the preferences in our
>>>>> user base for the following two options:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Option 1: please continue releasing the best possible 2.6 even if
>>>>> that slows down the final release of Groovy 3.0 and delays further
>>>>> work on better support for JDK9+.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Option 2: please release one more alpha of 2.6 over the next month
>>>>> or so which will become the best version to use to assist porting
>>>>> for users stuck on JDK7 and then focus on 3.0. The 2.6 branch will
>>>>> essentially be retired though we will consider PRs from the
>>>>> community for critical fixes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Feedback welcome.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers, Paul.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Søren Berg Glasius
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
>>>>> Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88, Skype: sbglasius
>>>>> --- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes.
>>> 

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