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From MG <>
Subject Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback
Date Mon, 26 Feb 2018 22:36:01 GMT
The examples I gave were purely to illustrate how annoying/harmful bad 
signals can be, as to explain better why I think /new /bad signals 
should be avoided if possible.
Same as I have evaluated Groovy a few years back, others are evaluating 
it right now. And most of them will not be at conferences listening to 
presentations, but instead using Google, forums and stackeroverflow etc.

Do we know that Groovy is a swell language ? Yes, of course.
But that' beside the point, because don't we want to do our best to 
convince people who might be sceptical or on the fence, without giving 
people like the "Scala fanboys" you mention (I did meet those in the net 
a few years back, quite fanboish/fanatical indeed - one thing that I 
found immediately refreshing me about Groovy and it's community was, 
that it seemed far lesss fanatical, and far more practical than 
proponents of other alternative JVM languages) any new ammunition ?

Btw, I don't know if you have noticed this, but there is of course also 
a battle for programmers' hearts going on in Wikipedia. Groovy is 
grossly underrepresented here, when e.g. examples in different languages 
for a general IT topic are given. I have added some Groovy related info 
to WIkipedia on multiple occasions, seeing that Scala, and later a 
surprising amount of Kotlin (for such a young language) were already 


On 25.02.2018 10:53, Guillaume Laforge wrote:
> James Stachan's quote has really been taken out of context, and 
> over-exagerated bu the Scala-fanboys.
> If Scala had been what it is now, James would probably not have 
> initiated Groovy *then*. But Scala was nascent just like Groovy *then*.
> It's like if Gavin King had said that he wouldn't have invented 
> Hibernate if JPA had existed... but JPA came ten years later.
> This quote was really harmful, but as the saying goes, lots of water's 
> gone through the bridges since then.
> There's still the myth of slowliness, which we all know is not true 
> anymore, even in pure dynamic mode (without even mentioning static 
> compilation)
> Usually, you spend way more time in network latency (access to remote 
> resources, access to database, etc) than waiting for the CPU spent by 
> just the pure language execution time.
> Also back on James Strachan: he went to play with Scala, then with 
> Kotlin, and has come back to using Groovy.
> He's using Groovy on a regular basis through his work with Jenkins, 
> its pipelines, etc.
> So he's back at his old love!
> So let's turn the page on those stories, please.
> Guillaume
> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Daniel Sun < 
> <>> wrote:
>     The creator of Groovy said "I can honestly say if someone had
>     shown me the
>     Programming in Scala book...". I think he compared Scala with the old
>     version of Groovy he created in about 2003. As we all know, Groovy has
>     evolved a lot, so I never care about others' out-dated opinions on
>     Groovy :)
>     Cheers,
>     Daniel.Sun
>     --
>     Sent from:
>     <>
> -- 
> Guillaume Laforge
> Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President
> Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform
> Blog:
> Social: @glaforge <> / Google+ 
> <>

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