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From Owen Rubel <>
Subject Re: A Brief History of Groovy
Date Fri, 09 Oct 2015 21:37:58 GMT
For me the hands down winner is being able to take a PHP or Javascript
developer and show them Groovy and have them programming in it after 1-2
days; having them no longer 'scared of Java' and having confidence that
they can program in it and finding it FUN... well, that for me just lights
me up every time. :)

Owen Rubel

On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 1:04 PM, Keith Suderman <> wrote:

> On Oct 9, 2015, at 12:03 PM, Owen Rubel <> wrote:
> no that wasnt it... it was in 2005 on his now defunct blog.
> I think that is just a reposting of the original article to his new blog.
> At least it contains the "famous quote".
> However, when people mention the quote to me I respond with, "Thank
> goodness he hadn't know about Scala."  Scala may be a great language, but
> for me what makes Groovy the hands down winner is syntax; being able to
> rename a .java file to .groovy and have it be 99% correct (often 100%) is a
> huge benefit.  Of course Java and Groovy syntax have started to diverge,
> but I always get the feeling that in some places Scala changes the syntax
> just to be contrary.
> Keith
> But yes. Seeing it now through different eyes, I feel for him but I also
> feel for the group for having to make rough decisions.
> It's never easy for people to have to do those things and its never easy
> for someone to let go of something they created.
> Perhaps James saying 'Groovy is crap' helps him to let go of it
> psychologically... which is a great way to help him heal and I'm sure he is
> past that alot by now.
> We all have hurt and we just have to rise above it and be introspective
> and look inside ourselves and try to see what we can learn and derive from
> it. In reading that conversation, I learned alot about what happened and I
> guess about myself too. It was very eye opening in how mature every one
> was... made me feel like I had alot to learn.
> I just thought it a nice restrospect on the leadership and how they
> weathered hard times together... not a pointing of a finger at an
> individual who reacted in a moment of weakness. Otherwise I would spend
> most of the time pointing at myself.
> Owen Rubel
> 415-971-0976
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Jochen Theodorou <>
> wrote:
>> Am 09.10.2015 um 19:30 schrieb Owen Rubel:
>>> I write a few articles about Groovy and every now and then I have a
>>> Scala fanatic through the James Strachan quote in my face. You know the
>>> one? The one where he is quoted on a Scala blog saying how if he had
>>> known about Scala when he was writing Groovy, he would have never
>>> created it'??
>> The funny thing is, they never ask why he would have not created Groovy
>> if he had known Groovy. It's because making a language is hard work, and it
>> is much better to lean back and let others do the job.
>> And I am not only talking about coding work. You have to fight language
>> trolls all the time. People that say programming language is rubbish
>> because of one small feature... Like some say C is bad, because it evals an
>> int 0 to the boolean false.
>> I always feel that James is the type that likes to test things out and go
>> from one new thing to the next. Someone that likes challenges. But that
>> type also often has a problem finishing things. A programming language
>> takes years to develop. That's normally too long for that type. Other new
>> cool things pop up and take attention. Also having a small team develop a
>> language is quite the time consuming job. And a lot of that is not
>> programming, but discussion. That's also not for that type. I very well
>> remember that first time I attended a Groovy developers meeting.... that
>> have been heated discussions back then. Today this works entirely different.
>> To me it is no wonder James left after he did see things can go on
>> without him.
>> I always like to say to people that he wasn't that involved with the
>>> project and he left early on... but I always wanted to know what
>>> happened. And the truth would make you so proud of your current leaders
>>> that I had to share.
>> He did a lot of work for early Groovy - so you can't say he wasn't that
>> involved. He was one of the driving forces of early Groovy times. But that
>> was, about 1-2 years? And we are talking here about 11 years in total and I
>> think 2 years before Groovy 1.0
>> Apparently as the team was pushing to hit their 1.0 launch, James was
>>> dragging his feet and there was some pushback (at least from what I can
>>> tell).
>>> This all came to a head when James published an article on his blog
>>> entitled 'Groovy is Dead' (article not available - if someone has this,
>>> I would LOVE to read).
>> Here you are:
>> [...]
>> bye blackdrag
>> --
>> Jochen "blackdrag" Theodorou
>> blog:
> ------------------------------
> Research Associate
> Department of Computer Science
> Vassar College
> Poughkeepsie, NY

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