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From Peter Donald <>
Subject Re: [warning inflammatory email] Stagn-ant?
Date Mon, 08 Jul 2002 11:46:35 GMT

On Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:20, wrote:
> Ant 1.x has been around a very long time now, and some of the proposals
> have been around for more than a year. It seems that there is a general
> unwillingness to make a move forward.

Not a general unwillingness - it would be a fantastic move. But there are 
political blocks that are not possible to get around. To adopt a new code 
base you take a vote and at last check of active committers this meant all 
but 3 committers must approve the adoption. 

Last time I checked, neither proposal had the votes. Mutant would be blocked 
and Myrmidon hangs on Stefans vote (and he no like last time I checked). And 
thats assuming the rest of ant-dev approves the change. So no proposal will 
get through until there is a significant demand from users or an influx of 
new ant developers. 

Personally I think that the users are the ones that should decide anyways ;)

> Proposals still seem to be heavily rooted in Ant 1.x terminology and
> technology and offer some 'goodies' to the end user, but little as a
> driving factor to move to something else is evident.

Thats mainly as they would never be accepted if they tried to move to another 
model. They can facilitate other build infrastrctures. ie Myrmidon is 
designed explicitly to support Maven and Centipedede style projects and I 
have spoken to author of Jelly about incorporating it into myrmidon (but yet 
to experiement).

> In the meantime, other projects have come along building on top of and
> next to Ant (Jelly, Maven, Centipede etc), usurping what would seem to be
> Ant 2's territory. 

sorta - but I see no problem with that ;)

> The current unspoken decision seems to be that none of the proposals are
> acceptable, and that the evolution of Ant 1 is the direction that will be
> taken, albeit at a slower pace than seems possible elsewhere.


> Maybe Ant2 will come from outside of ant-dev? Maybe Jelly, for example,
> will become what everyone uses and people will gradually stop using Ant as
> their main tool for builds. Maybe it will be a user friendly
> Forrest/Gump/Centipede combo?

could be. Not sure if thats a bad thing though. I have heard people claim 
Maven is the best thing since sliced bread and I have also heard people rave 
about centipede/forrest.

Long term it would be preferrable to base these projects on a common 
infrastructure that is based in ant land. Shorterm I don't see any real 
problems with whats going on now.


Peter Donald
 The fact that nobody understands you doesn't 
 mean you're an artist.

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