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From "Adam Murdoch" <>
Subject RE: [VOTE] Ant2 codebase adoption process
Date Sat, 26 Jan 2002 04:27:44 GMT


Perhaps it would be good to back up a little here.  For some reason, the
vote has boiled down to a 'mutant vs myrmidon' decision.  Which is far too
divisive (good B movie title, however).

Having looked through the code of both proposals, it seems like having to
choose one or the other is completely unnecessary.  They are remarkably
similar, and we should be able to extract features from them without *too*
much pain.  Of course, feature extraction is going to be more work than just
picking one entire proposal or the other, but certainly a more measured,
iterative, and inclusive approach.

So, how about we split this ant 2 codebase adoption process into several
bite-sized steps.  I'd like to propose the following process.

The goal of this process is to end up with a single Ant 2 proposal which is
endorsed by the entire ant-dev community.  Of course, people should be free
to spin off their own proposal at any stage, regardless of the outcome.

Step 1.  Vote on whether this process has the support of the ant-dev
committers.  A +1 vote  by a committer would not imply that the committer is
willing to do the work, simply that the stated goal has their 'blessing'.

This vote would best be done soon.  If the vote fails, well, we go back to
our respective proposals and keep cutting code until the issue comes up

Step 2.  Come up with a plan for putting together an initial codebase.  This
doesn't mean we actually end up with code.  Simply a plan for how we will
end up with code.  Part of this step would be figuring out whether the
process is feasable or not.  It is important to note that we would be
deciding the *starting* point for the proposal.  We would not be deciding
whether the code is ready to be called 'ant 2'.  That comes much, much

I think we already have some good embryonic plans, that simply need a bit of

This step would end with a vote for the resulting plan.  It should happen a
few weeks after the first vote.  Again, if the vote fails, the process ends.
For the time being.

Step 3.  Start working on the plan, to end up with a source tree for the
proposal.  During this time, we would also start putting together a roadmap
for getting from starting point to Ant 2 release.

A note on the plans:  I don't think we need to come up with anything
terribly detailed.  Just something to give us some focus.  Of course, the
will need to be fluid, and revised frequently.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Conor MacNeill []
> Sent: Friday, 25 January 2002 11:59 PM
> To: Ant Developers List
> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Ant2 codebase adoption process
> I would like to try and address people's many comments on this thread
> but first I guess I should declare the vote a failure. Many committers
> did not vote directly and of those that did, while we have some support
> for the cutoff date, (+3.5) votes, there is insufficient support, (+2.5,
> -1) votes for the selection method. Agreeing on a date but not agreeing
> on what to do at that date is not that useful :-)
> So, besides the debate about whether we need Ant2 at all, I think we do
> not have a process for getting to Ant2. Sam  suggested the application
> of Duncan's "rules for revolutionaries". I wonder whether those rules
> will work or will the "dampening" effect he suggests just lead to
> indefinite postponement. By suggesting a majority vote on selection of a
> codebase, I wanted to at least ensure a result, a choice, in a bounded
> timeframe. We have been waiting for Ant2 too long already - well at
> least some of us have :-). My suggestion, therefore, is to leave aside
> the question of timeframe and simply try to resolve the process for
> codebase selection. Do you think rules for revolutionaries will work?
> Any suggestions would be welcome.
> Conor
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