From ant-dev-return-11257-apmail-jakarta-ant-dev-archive=jakarta.apache.org@jakarta.apache.org Sat Mar 10 06:07:39 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-jakarta-ant-dev-archive@jakarta.apache.org Received: (qmail 35806 invoked by uid 500); 10 Mar 2001 06:07:39 -0000 Mailing-List: contact ant-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ant-dev@jakarta.apache.org list-help: list-unsubscribe: list-post: Delivered-To: mailing list ant-dev@jakarta.apache.org Received: (qmail 35797 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2001 06:07:39 -0000 From: "Chris Todd" To: Subject: RE: [ANN] Collecting requirements for Ant2 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 01:06:21 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010307233946.0214f470@alphalink.com.au> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Spam-Rating: h31.sny.collab.net 1.6.2 0/1000/N OK, here's my wishlist for Ant 2 (or at least a list of things I would like to see discussed): All of these ideas center around making Ant even easier to use for newbies/converts. Ant is already pretty darned good in that respect, but I know it can be even better (IMHO)! :-) You may feel free to scoff at these suggestions, and flame me at will, but at the very least, I would like to see these issues discussed. And I apologize in advance for my verbosity. :-( 1) Easier install process. Perhaps a GUI/wizard-type installer (maybe even using Java Web Start from the Ant homepage)? I am particularly thinking of an option that asks the user whether they will be using certain optional tasks that require external libraries (e.g. FTP, script, JUnit, etc.), and then offering the user the chance to download them (from CJAN or the ant website or wherever) during the install. Something like this could cut down on the "FTP task isn't working" faqs (of course, good docs don't hurt either, and the docs have been getting better). I would even be willing to bet that such a GUI installer (perhaps integrated with Antidote) could be made to allow users to "upgrade" their Ant installation when new tasks or bug fixes as they come out. For those of you who have used jEdit, I am thinking along the lines of the plugin manager it uses (translating jEdit plugin == Ant task). I think the 'ant task as plugin' analogy could work quite well. 2) Make it easier to run ant. The batch/shell scripts...let's either ditch them (if possible), and perhaps make an executable jar file, or try to make them absolutely fool-proof. Granted, I'm not sure how to access environment variables with an executable jar file (property files perhaps?), but with this many clever people around, I'm sure we could figure something out. There might not be any way around the scripts, but I would at least like to explore the possibility. 3) Antidote. I see three good reasons for really making Antidote integral to Ant 2.0 (there may be more). First, builds will be faster, since they'll be in-process (and one-click). Second, if Antidote can be constructed such that property editors can be used for every aspect of the build file, then newbies might not even need to know any XML at all. Third, newbies will simply be more comfortable. Crucial to this, I believe, is a build-file wizard/quick start tutorial. That would also be an excellent opportunity to lay down 'best practices' for Ant-based builds. I volunteer to help with such a wizard. I am sure what constitutes 'Ant best practices' will be actively debated. :-) 4) A central repository for contributions (user-created tasks, helper scripts, IDE integration stuff, etc.). I realize this has been discussed before, but I wanted to make sure it gets attention. There have been many tasks and other contributions that have been sent to ant-dev, and the only place they are available is via the mailing list archive. What are the odds that an Ant newbie who uses Emacs/JDE is actually going to find the jde-ant.el post from a couple of months back? Slim, I wager. Instead, there should be one central place that everyone can go and find all sorts of Ant goodies and extras, regardless of who submitted them or whether the Ant developers approve of them (ala the 'ant as a scripting language' debate some time back). This probably can/should be tied in with the plugin idea above (and/or CJAN). 5) Better docs. While this is often a weak point in OSS projects, I have to admit the Ant manual is quite good, and my kudos go out to everyone that has made it so. But I think it can be better, particularly in the area of helping newbies learn the ropes quickly. My guess is that some reorganization of the existing manual would help, as well as the addition of a quick start tutorial of some kind. Given that I volunteered to help with the GUI wizard, I volunteer to help with this as well. (And I am almost finished converting the existing manual to XML; I am hoping to have it available next week). 6) An RPM task would be cool. Again, I apologize for my verbosity, and I thank you if you've actually read down this far. :-) I look forward to debating these and other Ant 2 issues. Regards, Chris Todd chris.todd@home.com P.S. I realize this is pretty trivial, but a nice logo/icon would be cool. I'm no good with graphics, but I thought perhaps an Ant with a construction helmet building a brick wall? I know, I'm a geek...but it could be cute! :-) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: ant-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: ant-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org