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From "Jose Alberto Fernandez" <j_a_fernan...@yahoo.com>
Subject RE: What is a 'declarative' language
Date Wed, 28 Mar 2001 00:16:19 GMT
> From: David Bullock [mailto:dbullock@lisa.com.au]
>
> On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Tim Vernum wrote:
>
> > I'd like to see list/set based operations. But I like them because
> > they're a fairly clean, simple, and powerful way of supporting
> > iteration, not because they're declarative.
> >
>
> Point taken. :-)
>
> The request for 'declarative' comes from people who wish to
> attempt to parallelise execution of Ant tasks in a
> distributed ( multi-machine / multi-OS ) fashion.
>

This is not the case at all. I have never heard anybody given that argument.

> I think the contention is that, if the dependency graph
> cannot be determined by each execution context at startup (
> which is the benefit of a purely declarative language ), then
> it makes the task of implementing this more difficult.
>
> Without thinking too much about it yet, there seem to be two
> basic approaches to 'distributed ant' possible here:
>
> 1a) a 'controller' antd process invokes the task-building
> services of various other antd's  ... that is, the controller
> knows what the dependency graph is, and simply farms out work
> at a task-atomic level.
>
> 1b) as for 1a, except that chunks of the dependency graph are
> farmed out at a time (non task-atomic)
>
> 2) a set of antd services is given a build-file to build, and
> a pointer to a shared BuildState kept in JNDI ( or something
> like that )
>
>
> Intuitively, model 2 seems more flexible.  Not sure what the
> benefits of knowing the dependency graph at startup would be.
> Model 1a doesn't seem to have any special requirements for
> the dependency graph to be known at startup.
> Model 1b would require the dependency graph to be known at
> startup, and not to change.
>
>
> I really think the 'declarative' discussion is up to the
> people who want to do 'distributed ant' sometime in the
> future.  What are the constraints on the buildfile language
> that would really be showstoppers if not observed?
>
>
> ( I should add that, in the multi-tool world of Java, it is
> important to be able to do distributed builds on different
> underlying OS's )
>
>
>
> regards,
> David.
>
>
> Thanks everyone, for Ant!
>
>
> David Bullock
> LISAsoft Project Lead
> Sun Certified Programmer for the Java 2 Platform
>
>  email: dbullock@lisasoft.com
> mobile: +61 4 0290 1228
>
> "The key ingredients of success are a crystal-clear goal,
> a realistic attack plan to achieve that goal,
> and consistent, daily action to reach that goal."
>
> Steve Maguire, "Debugging the Development Process".
>
> LISAsoft
> http://www.lisasoft.com/
>
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