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From Simeon Fitch <>
Subject Re: So, The Show Must Go On
Date Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:30:52 GMT

--- Peter Donald <> wrote:
> Well I may be in the minority but I believe then *general* vision is
> fairly
> solid among long time developers/lurkers. I posted a list of points that
> I
> think where generally in the mindsphere of most a while back. However I
> guess we have been fairly poor at formalizing, expressing and
> communicating
> the concepts/ideas/vision ;) For the newish ideas
> (workspaces/multi-project
> files) these will be discussed when need arises I guess ;)

Just thinking out loud here, but....

I'm thinking that it might be  a really good idea if the contents of some
of these emails where extracted and checked into some part of the cvs tree
so that there is some centralized point for people to reference. I'm
talking about something even more informal than the approach I've taken
toward recording people's ideas in the antidote/docs directory; just a
place for the brainstorming to be better recorded than in the disorganized
mailing list archives. 

This way people can review the contents, think about it and post "patches"
to it that include their feature sets, design ideas, and other commentary. 

Then, once everyone agrees that there has been ample time for people to
voice their desires and goals, the document can be organized more based on
theme and content, and we can explicitly vote on contrary approches and on
the inclusion of the various proposed features.

For those cases where full design proposals have already been submitted,
the key points can be placed in this document, with references to the
source. Since this is brainstorming, anything is allowed: requirements,
designs, implementation approaches, whatever. The focus is getting the
"mindshare" represented by this group recorded and in a format that
accomidates review and revising.

Taking a process oriented approach like this will allow 1) every one to
voice their ideas and desires, 2) facilitate discussion on contrary
approaches in the hopes of concensus, 3) offer the opportunity to have
their positive or negative vote heard on each item, so that they could at
least claim that that they were for or against something regardless of the
final outcome.

Just as a start, perhaps, would Peter, Duncan, James, Conor, Jon, whoever,
anyone, be willing to start such a file by dumping the ideas you have
posted in there? And then people can either check in their own
updates/patches to it, or post diffs to the group that will be rolled in
regardless of their content (as long as nothing is deleted, see below).
Then, hopefully, after a couple of weeks of this we will have something
that the group can massage and reorganize that will lead to a blueprint for
Ant 2.0.

The initial rule would be that you can't delete what anyone else has put in
the document, but you can reorganize it based on topic. Further more the
sections would be somehow labeled according to author(s). I recommend that
sections be grouped according to topic, e.g. all the different approaches
to properties handling be group together, cronologically, with commentary
about the pros and cons of each approach, and proposals that include the
best parts of the previous proposals.

Another benefit to this is that it will allow the best parts of each
proposal to be better collected so that say one person's property
architecture can be combined with someone else's task execution engine,

Result? Combined vision == combined ownership == combined commitment.

Anyone got a better approach?


Mustard Seed Software

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