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From Jon Stevens <>
Subject Re: JARs in CVS (was Re: On voting rules)
Date Wed, 29 Nov 2000 09:58:29 GMT
on 11/29/2000 12:48 AM, "Stefan Bodewig" <> wrote:

> If I understand Pete's and your goal correctly you want to (1) make it
> easy to get a development version of Ant (we're on ant-dev here and I
> don't intend to talk about any other project) that works more or less
> out of the box and (2) support the lazy developer - Pete's words - by
> shipping as many required libraries as possible.

I wouldn't call someone who simply wants to fix one bug in Ant without
having to download a bazillion .jar files from all over the place "lazy."

> OK, here is my proposal: Include the JARs in the nightly builds but
> leave the out of the repository. Downloading a nightly build is even
> easier than building from CVS and it is a lot less work, so both
> points should have been addressed.

Ok, so *where* do those .jar files come from?

> (1) What you have proposed (the CJAN idea, right?) has some connection
> to Ant, but I personally see it as something separate. I guess your
> proposal would have better been placed at general@jakarta or something
> similar. This is not really an Ant or even "Ant only" thing. You are
> not addressing the right community IMHO.

Actually, I think that this list is the perfect place for this. This list is
about our (the Jakarta Project's) primary build system. Given that a CJAN
would be integrated into Ant and the people who are interested in Ant are
also interested in build systems, I think this is the perfect place.

> (2) Conor said he liked the idea and was willing to help. Stating that
> "absolutely no one from the community has volunteered to step up" is
> wrong.

Ok, I haven't gotten one request to modify the .xml file that I placed up on
the Jakarta site. A statement of being willing to help is a hell of a lot
different than someone actually sending me a patch or code or whatever.

> (3) In my experience "there is no community to help support us when we
> need help" is plain wrong as a general statement - at least for the
> Ant community. For the CJAN case, see (1).

True. My point being that I would *hope* that someone would in fact step up.

> I know you are a very active guy, contributing to a lot of projects,
> but - don't get me wrong - you're not the only one being busy with
> other things.

True, but I also think that there must be at least 1 or 2 other people out
there who might be able to take some of their free time and devote it to
something like this.

> Remember we've been talking about Ant, we still are on ant-dev. I
> can't remember you committing any JAR at all and if the Turbine
> community decides they'd prefer to have the JAR in there CVS, fine.

I disagree that this is just about Ant. Think bigger picture here.


twice of not very much is still a lot more than not very much

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