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From "Craig R. McClanahan" <>
Subject Re: no response?? RE: building . . .
Date Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:30:01 GMT
"Winkley, Dennis x66244" wrote:

> :) thanx I was beginning to wonder if anyone even saw my message...
> > I have a problem with your goal of not wanting to do clean builds from
> > scratch.  The issue is that you can get bitten big time by
> > incompatible
> > changes made to source modules.  For example, if you add a
> > new method to a
> > Java interface and compile it, the only thing that will be
> > compiled then is
> > the interface -- not any classes that implement it.  You
> > won't find out
> > about that kind of problem until the first time your app
> > tries to load that
> > particular class, when you get an ugly exception.
> >
> > As I work on Tomcat, for example, my morning routine always starts:
> >     * cvs update -dP
> >     * ./ clean
> >     * ./ all
> > to ensure that these kinds of issues get caught.  (In fact,
> > our project rule
> > is that you have to do a clean build before you can even
> > check anything
> > in.)  Thus, the way Ant currently deals with modification
> > checking is fine
> > by me.
> >
> > Craig McClanahan
> >
> just curious, if you ant reached the point that it handled the dependencies
> so that you never had the problem mentioned above, wouldn't you want to be
> able to do builds without a clean?

It's not Ant's dependency checking that is the issue for this problem; it's the
Java compiler's checking.

At any rate, I want the absolute assurance that the entire project will compile
for someone who newly checked it out.  The only way to give me that confidence
is to build it from scratch regularly.  Having a user run into a preventable
error like this isn't acceptable to me.

>  I'm guessing Tomcat probably takes more
> time than my project and ours takes 15 minutes to do a full build (may not
> seem like much but it adds up when it's done each day).

On my creaking old 233mhz Linux box it takes a little over five minutes to do a
Tomcat "build all" -- on my 600mHz laptop it's less two minutes -- both with
JDK 1.2.2.  Jikes would be a lot faster, but I prefer to test against the JDK's
compilers.  Because our CVS repository is remote, the "cvs update" can
sometimes take longer than the rebuild, but there's not a lot of choice there.

At any rate, 15 minutes is a small price to pay for a little peace of mind.
And, it's about enough time for that first cup of coffee and a browse of the
overnight email that you're probably doing anyway, so it's hardly wasted :-)

> my next question would be even if it isn't something that you would use,
> would you be okay with it added as an optional setting?

If it encourages people to make themselves more susceptible to the kind of
problem discussed above, I would not personally be in favor of it.  But I'm a
customer of Ant, rather than a developer of it -- others might have different

> Dennis

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